Tecknickle question about "extracted" cabs.

  • Presumably understanding the way Studio and Merged profiles are produced, If I had a merged profile and a studio profile that were made at the same time, same mics, settings etc, and saved the cab from both of them they would be exactly the same correct? Both cabs would be "figured out" by cab diver and extracted & saved right? The direct signal is the thing that is broken out as separate during the merged profile making process, as then in theory you can just play the head into a cabinet authentically, but the studio portion part of both merged and studio would be the same so extracting/saving the cabs from both should be the same? I found a cab that I really like and saved. it comes from a pack that has a merged profile as well.


    I was just wondering if there would be some sonic difference better or worse between them and I am trying to go around A/B testing them if there would be a difference I don't know about.


    My assumption is that they should be the same, because the software that decides what portion of the profile the cab is, would be used the same way on both.

    Merged profiles have 2 parts, a head part, and a head + cab part, Cab driver (or whatever software breaks out the cab for saving) is what is making the "imprint".

  • This stuff is still kind of over my head, but it seems that a merged profile is just a DI profiled merged into a Studio profile and that "Merged" profile retains the sound characteristics of both profiles (A + B). So, I don't see how once you have the merged profile and compare back to the studio profile it would be the same (A + B) not equal to (B).

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • Dynochrome, a studio profile and a merged profile are different in thew way that a merged profile is done without the cabdriver algorithm guessing where the amp portion of the profile ends and the cab portion begins. In a merged profile the Profiler can subtract the Direct Amp profile from the studio profile which leaves the exact cab portion with more accuracy than Cabdriver is able to guess.

    That said, I think Cabdriver does an excellent job.


    From the manual:

    How to Create Merged PROFILEs

    If you are planning to take both a Direct Amp PROFILE and a Studio PROFILE of the same tube amplifier, for merging them later, we recommend the following sequence:

    If you like, do the setup and cabling for both PROFILEs. Position the microphones by the guitar cabinet as required. However, you will not be able to take both PROFILEs in one go, since the PROFILER only supports one return signal for PROFILING.

    Make all required adjustments to the amp while listening to it right in front of the guitar cabinet. Don't worry about the mic'ed sound at this stage, as the direct sound cannot be adjusted by anything other than the amplifier controls.

    Capture the Direct Amp PROFILE first, as described above, and save it.

    Do not touch the controls of the amp after capturing the Direct Amp PROFILE, as both PROFILEs, and thus the eventual Merged PROFILE, must be based on the same original amp sound.

    Now, you can merge the cabinet portion of the Studio PROFILE into the Direct Amp PROFILE.

  • The direct signal is the thing that is broken out as separate during the merged profile making process,

    Its the opposite way round. The Direct is a known portion and is used to “break out” the cab section by subtracting this known Direct portion from the full studio profile. However a Merged profile is a Direct Profile and Cab preset. Therefore if you use the cab section of a Merged profile you should have the actual cab to use with other rigs. HOWEVER, when you use this true cab with another Studio Rig the Amp portion of the Studio rig will still be estimated by cab driver so maybe still not perfect.


    You should be able to mix and match Amps and Cabs from Merged profiles or use Cabs from Merged profiles with any Direct Amp Profiles.

  • You should be able to mix and match Amps and Cabs from Merged profiles or use Cabs from Merged profiles with any Direct Amp Profiles.

    I'm mainly speaking of using cab profiles with other studio profiles . So when you do a merged it does the cab by Studio*- Direct = cab and Studio does a cab by Studio/cabdriver = cab. Is that correct? I was just looking to see if either gives a better quality of cab and not necessarily the most accurate to the original if that makes sense.

  • So I saved the cab from a merged profile and the cab from the same studio profile. When I A/B'd those cabs in another studio rig I could not tell the difference or it was so slight my picking made more of a difference. I'm not saying there was no difference, just none I could detect that would make enough difference in just about any situation. I went ahead and kept the merged one just based on the info in this thread.

  • So when you do a merged it does the cab by Studio*- Direct = cab and Studio does a cab by Studio/cabdriver = cab. Is that correct?

    yes


    I’m not surprised by your A/B test. Although Cabdriver only estimates the contribution of the speaker it does seem to do a very good job.


    I have done A/B with some commercial packs which include both Studio and Merged profiles of the same rig. These should sound identical but in some cases there are noticeable differences. It seems that Cabdriver does at least as good a job (if not better) than Merging.

  • Note: There are sellers / users that don't make merged profiles like intended.


    Some just make additionaly direct am profiles and only copy the studio cab and save it.


    Some use many direct amp profiles, all with the same cab (which was profiled with another amp). Only cab copied and saved again. Or hit merge button, which is totally wrong in that case.


    Others make studio profiles, than later connect a colouring di box for making direct amp profiles.

    Merging now gives a slightly different result.


    Others tell you the profiles are "merged", but they mean by that using studio profiles and just copy any IR / cab preset and save that as a new rig.

    ...

  • These should sound identical but in some cases there are noticeable differences. It seems that Cabdriver does at least as good a job (if not better) than Merging.

    This is what started me on this in the first place. I was wondering what the cabdriver cab would have in it that the merged cab didn't and the other way around. Would one have better fidelity , bit rate etc.

    I rarely use merged profiles because to me it seems as though studio profiles are "glued together" better and more predictable.


    Really the only reason for having a Merged profile would be just to make it more accurate going into a live cab or into a speaker sim correct?