Kemper kone vs "real" speakers: my experience

  • Today I've got my set of kones.

    I put them immediately in my 212 and the result was rather disappointing.

    The kones do not have the clarity and breath, especially in the top end compared to my "real" speakers (WGS Veteran 30 and ET65).

    the various imprints do sound like the respectable speakers, but from my setup these differences were not very big.


    I have a camplifier on the way and hope that it magically makes the kones work, but it amazes me that, with only the speaker changed from the setup, the difference in sound quality was so lacking.


    do other people have had the same experience?

  • welcome to the Kemper Kab club !


    Have non-powered Toaster since 2013 but do not play often - pure hobby.

    Have Powered Yamaha HS8 connected to Main Out. 2 weeks ago I received Kemper Powered Kabinet to achieve this "amp in room" sound - much more 'percussive' - Monitor never gave that Palm Mute Percussion effect i get with Amp.


    I have the Kemper Powered Kabinet since 2 weeks. I also have a Fender Tweed Blues Reissue, that I profiled. I still find the Fender has more "amp in room". I managed to increase volume of Kemper Kabinet - initially was really low, but there are many settings spread all over ( has anyone counted the number of Volume and Gain knobs spread ? which one effects what chain ???). Had to play with different EQ, and 'definition' /presence / clarity settings all over to get similar clarify again - Kemper Kab was very muffled initially.

    Shame as I bought Kemper Kab to get the "Kemper ideal Reference Sound" - it should be the Benchmark, so I can worry less about million of settings, and focus more on playing while have the "great sound experience".


    sadly - nope .... .


    Last weekend i downloaded an RTA spectrum analysis app for iPad. It showed that my Fender Amp has a dominant frequency around 160 Hz. I tested all Kab Speakers, and they all sounded very similar to each other and all had same 224Hz dominant frequency. The frequency around 160Hz was much lower in amplitude on the Kab, even though my Fender Blues is a half Open back, so should have less bass compared to the closed back Kemper Powered Kab.


    Anyone any experience wit this ? Are the speaker/imprint differences really subtle and do I need to train my ear more ?


    My Hs8 Yamaha monitors connected to Main Out, have the same 160Hz dominant frequency as my Fender - so nothing wrong with Profile. So, maybe the Kone has more "Air replacement / SPL" but my HS8 monitors sound much more like my Fender Blues than the Powered Kab.


    Go figure ....


    I lost me 1 sheet Kabinet settings that was in box - can anyone scan this and put on Forum , please ?


    Any other suggestions ?

  • Hi,


    Quite the opposite here : i put 2 Kemper Kones in my Orange PPC 212 cab to replace "real" Creambacks H75 and the result is excellent, much more clarity and open tone, livier and more responsive...


    Important : my settings are quite the same (Kone mode, cabinet off, use of either FRFR or imprints), but i am careful to use the monitor jack output only as the rendering is slightly different and flatter on main jack output. I also use a home-made SS stereo power amp using a 50W PowerIce module to ensure high-fidelity and i rewired my cab with high-quality wires.


    I find that FRFR really shines, offering the full Kemper profile experience, definitively a major improvement over my former FRFR or real speakers (F12X200, Creambacks).


    Regards,


    Cédric

  • Last weekend i downloaded an RTA spectrum analysis app for iPad. It showed that my Fender Amp has a dominant frequency around 160 Hz. I tested all Kab Speakers, and they all sounded very similar to each other and all had same 224Hz dominant frequency.

    this dominant frequency is almost certainly the cabinet rather than the speaker. If you put thrKone in the Fender Cabinet I would expect to see the same 160hz response. Likewise, if you put the Fender speaker in the Kemper Kabinet it would probably have a dominant frequency around 224hz.


    With regards to the speaker imprints all sounding very similar; this seems strange. In my experience they all sound noticeably different

    Important : my settings are quite the same (Kone mode, cabinet off, use of either FRFR or imprints), but i am careful to use the monitor jack output only as the rendering is slightly different and flatter on main jack output.

    you can only use imprints with the Monitor Out. The imprints are never sent to any of the other outputs. This would explain why the "rendering" is different and flatter - you aren't actually hearing the imprint.

  • I run 2 un-powered kabinets with my powered rack which I've had for a number of months, having done a number of rehearsals and gigs.


    Couple of points for me:


    1) ANY change to monitoring will of course change your profile settings. So just switching and expecting it to sound better will not always work. For example, real cabs add massive colour so it can hide poor profiles which show up under FRFR. Also if you have chosen or eq'ed based on one solution, it won;t necessarily transpose.


    2) Comparing with a real amp when profiled through a different signal path is never going to sound the same i.e. profiling a combo, then removing the cab section and then adding back under imprints....guess what...will sound different


    I definitely have no clarity issues and they sound better than any other monitor solution I have used so far. Guitar cabs are not flexible enough to show the differences across profiles. FRFR is too clinical. Studio Monitors are great for close monitoring but not for that expansive sound. Kabinet bridges the gaps really well.


    As I ran FRFR previously, I didn't need to make any eq changes and worked well out of the box.


    Set up as always is key. The right profiles are as always key.

  • I have a camplifier on the way and hope that it magically makes the kones work, but it amazes me that, with only the speaker changed from the setup, the difference in sound quality was so lacking.

    I have a Kone arriving tomorrow, reading the forum for the last year has presented quite a mix in results from forum members concerning the Kone. This resulted in me going back and forth in my mind between the Kone or a fairly neutral guitar speaker (at least by manufacturers claims) to replace my current setup. I found that the experiences users on the forum have shared, many of which are extremely well versed in the Kemper Universe, and the solutions they have arrived at to be invaluable free advice.

    An older video on YouTube from forum member Ingolf helped me make my decision to purchase the Kemper instead of a new tube combo amp, I found his use of a Fender Mustang III in the video as one of his monitoring solutions intriguing as I also owned one so I pulled the trigger on a Kemper in June of 2017. I did try using my powered pa speakers and was very disappointed even though I've seen several other forum members reporting good results with the same speaker. I think after 35 years of playing through traditional amps I was more comfortable with the Mustang over the pa speaker, it was to much of a shock to my brain to totally go to the dark side all at once.

    As others have already stated profile choice is a key link in the chain. Last summer after 3 years and trying thousands of profiles on the rig exchange, many of which were really good, I followed the advice of forum members and took advantage of sales Mbritt and Tonejunkie were having and purchased several packs from both venders. It made quite a difference overall, very good quality profiles and more consistent in sound quality from one amp type to another.

    I'm confident the advice these members share will help you achieve your goal of tone nirvana, I have benefited greatly thus far. The only downside I've experienced is the amount of money they have caused me to spend :)


  • Please confirm that you run the Kones from either the Monitor Outputs (only!) of your Profiler and an external power amp, or directly from a build in power amp.


    The Kemper Kone Mode is only happening on the Monitor Output (or the build in power amp). On any other there is no support for the Kone/Kabinet. As a result, the Kones will sound muffled an suboptimal.


    I assume that those who experience a subpar tone, do not connect it the right way.

  • Please confirm that you run the Kones from either the Monitor Outputs (only!) of your Profiler and an external power amp, or directly from a build in power amp.

    Great to see you adding support Sir! This is off topic and don't want to hijack the thread however curious what your settings are for the Kones (pure cabinet, directivity, etc.). Would like to try them sometime. ;)

  • I run mine stereo into the back end of a Vox Adio Air Gt and I think it sounds great.

  • Great to see you adding support Sir! This is off topic and don't want to hijack the thread however curious what your settings are for the Kones (pure cabinet, directivity, etc.). Would like to try them sometime. ;)

    Nothing special.

    The default values are a good choice.


    Especially for the Imprint mode (MonitorCabOff)

    Directivity at noon for the Imprint mode.

    Bass Boost on only if the Kabinet is lifted.

    That‘s all options.


    I like the „Oxford“ imprint the most. A true treasure.

  • Nice...thank you for the reply!