What would be a recomendable FRFR for medium volume small club live gigs?

  • I need to buy a decent speaker for gigging in smal clubs. It should be as crisp and faithful as possible, but stronger than Genelecs or other studio monitors. I like the idea to play through real studio monitors. They could be good for experimental, weired sounds (many avantgarde electronic players use them) but I would fear that they won't survive a louder setup with say a drummer and a Saxophone. But yet it does not need to go as loud and as much lowfreq-umph as the big stack - it should replace my 2x6V6 10"-speaker amp set on nice overdrive. That is quite loud, but not as loud as a Stack or a Twin. I am torn between QSC K8 or JBL EON 510. The BOSE L1 Compact would be the top end of what I could pay for (I just need one speaker, no stereo). And also the top of what I could schlepp around.

    • QSC K8
    • JBL EON 510
    • BOSE L1 Compact
    • RCF NX 10-SMA

    Impossible to find a shop where all these compañeros are on display all at the same time...


    Any opinions? Any suggestions?
    THNX FOLX

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

  • JBL EON Sucks! Big time! Ok for a DJ but awful with guitars. I've been using a QSC k-10 and I've just changed to a RCF NX-12sma: LOTS better! (and the QSC was already good). I'm not a big fan of the Bose concept.


    All this IMO....

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • I just dicovered a possibly perfect solution for many guitarists. Myself I am trying to go towards FRFR, but I have difficulties with the typical monitors on the market. The all might be good for vocals, drums and whatever, but for guitar the all sound artificial for me. I didn't check the all time recommended RCF NX-12sma. I probably will not do that in the future, because I refuse to pay such money for a monitor. I rather wait for other solutions.


    At the moment I am using a Matrix GT800FX into two EV12L Thiele Cabs (TubeTown). So far I am quite satisfied, but I still feel the need for checking out FRFR. Yesterday, while I was on tour for testing monitors in the local music store scene, a friend (owner of a store) pointed on a little speaker and said: You might want to try this one out. Mmmh - I didn't know the brand and on the back I saw a knob for dialing in different tones, labeled as "Twin" "Drums" "Stage" etc. It looked like a built in modeller. I first refused to carry this thing home, but he insisted. So it went into my trunk.


    Later after ending my unsuccessful tour, I tried this little speaker and was quite surprised of the sound coming out.


    I am talking about the ALTO SXM 112a.


    This speaker I would see somewhere in between FRFR and amp/cab. It is for my oponion not a real FRFR monitor, because it has an emphasized midrange (good for most guitar tone) and a not so high resoluted high end. But it fits very good to good guitar tones. I compared it with my amp/cab setup and for sure it is not the same ( it shouldn't be) but it is not such a big step far away from the typical amp/cab feeling.


    The price is somewhere in the 300 Euro area. That's cheap for a powerfull (400 Watt) monitor with 12" coax speaker. For everybody who want to go "a little bit" FRFR and still want a portion of amp/cab feeling this might be worth a try.


    Today I get me another one in order to play stereo. I could imagine that this will be a very good budget setup. Once the speakers broke in properly after a while they even could lose the bit of a "stiff" feelling.


    There is a thread on axefx-forum where somebody is comparing it to the RCFs, mentioned above. This comparison is like comparing a Gibson to a Fender and stating the Fender sounds more briliant. Look at the price, the weight, the size. It is another animal! But worth a try I would say.

  • JBL EON Sucks! Big time! Ok for a DJ but awful with guitars. I've been using a QSC k-10 and I've just changed to a RCF NX-12sma: LOTS better! (and the QSC was already good). I'm not a big fan of the Bose concept.

    Can you tell me what is is especially that you don't like with the EON?


    Interesting:
    the RCF NX are a bit the opposite concept of the BOSE. One is focussing
    on emitting the high end exactly from where the mid and low part is
    coming from (concentrical tweeter) and the other is lifting the high
    speakers intentionally on ear level while the low speaker remains
    standing on the floor, which might be helpful on small and narrow club
    stages.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

  • I still think that the Atomic FR is a very good choice.

    Never tried the Atomic amps. Might be a good sound, but I don't like the size and weight.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

  • I am talking about the ALTO SXM 112a.

    Maybe worth a try, yes. But I don't want to do too much compromise on the sound. When you play small club gigs with a nicely overdriven tube amp this is almost the only opportunity where people can hear a tube amp as it is, without the intervention of a PA. I started with the KPA because I want more control over the volume, but I would not want to sacrifice that sparkling, responsive sound of a cranked amp - especially not on small club gigs.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

  • Can you tell me what is is especially that you don't like with the EON?


    Shrill, paperboard-like midrange and muffy bass. At that time I've tried them with my HD500 and an 11Rack that was in the shop. Stopped after 2 minutes.....

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • Today I picked up the second Alto for testing. Soundwise no big changes (expected). Fuller, stereo (nice). Real loud.


    What I found out not only with the Altos, the monitor output produces more gain than the main outs. Is this normal or did I miss a setting?
    I am using the quarter inch jack. Is that the same as the XLRs?

  • Yes - I know, but that shouldn't influence the distortion (that's what I actually meant by gain). Is that right?

    It means that the XLR should be louder than the TS Jack, but there should be no distortion at all behind the KPA.

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

  • I have the RCF ART310A, but I haven't played out with it. I also have a Bose L1 Model 2 with a single bass module. At first I didn't like the Bose, but then I started using some of the EQ and effects within the associated mixed (ToneMatch) and was surprised at the improvement. Proper EQ can have a major impact on the perceived sound quality. I think the same is true of the 310A, but it has no internal EQ, only a volume control. I would suggest that if you use one of these you would want to put a decent quality mixer or other device capable of EQ between it and the KPA. I would try all the options out. Hell, you might even try a Fishman SoloAmp. Those are hated by some people, but I've heard some decent sounds coming from the one my buddy uses in his solo act.

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

  • Hmm - yes, an acoustic-guitar-amp might be a good idea! Pity that the class-D technology has not yet arrived in this sector.


    Certainly I need something smaller than the RCF NX 10-SMA or even RCF ART310A. It should be:

    • best sound (of yourse with compromise in the low end punch)
    • medium volume (just small venues)
    • minimum size (should fit into a suitcase toghether with the KPA)

    Right now I am thinking about dB Technologies K300.


    Has anybody ever done small club gigs with Genelecs?

    www.audiosemantics.de
    I have been away for quite a while. A few years ago I sold my KPA and since then played my own small tube amp with a Bad Cat Unleash. Now I am back because the DI-profile that I made from my amp sounds very much convincing to me.

  • If you're looking for something that small try out a Fishman Loudbox Mini. Those can be had for about $300 and weigh under 20lbs. I've not tried one, but I've heard good things regarding their use with acoustic guitars ...

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer