Is my Kemper amplifying bass/low mids too much or are my guitars crap?

    Quote from Nordan

    Of course every headphone is EQ'd differently and every room has it's problems. But this doesn't matter here. I compared two reamped signals through the same monitor source(s).

    I know this won;t help but....


    • The Kempers E.Q. isn;t odd, you should not need to do any massive E.Q.ing - which leads me to suspect there is another issue in your signal chain
    • You can get a great sound out of a Kemper for what you are doing.


    There are so many factors at play its really difficult to diagnose. Reamping should have ruled out playing etc so now its in the monitoring and your set up.

    Might be your next course of action, but hard to believe its not a setting or something else, but without a side by side test with another Kemper you won;t know. Hope you get it sorted...

    Quote from V8guitar

    I know this won;t help but....


    • The Kempers E.Q. isn;t odd, you should not need to do any massive E.Q.ing - which leads me to suspect there is another issue in your signal chain
    • You can get a great sound out of a Kemper for what you are doing.


    There are so many factors at play its really difficult to diagnose. Reamping should have ruled out playing etc so now its in the monitoring and your set up.

    Surely the general Kemper EQ is not odd.... but my unit seems to be?


    You also can hear the differene in the one Reamp exsample. So it's not my room, my monitors or my 3 headphones. The sound itself changed.

    Edited once, last by Nordan ().

    Hey,


    I tried some stuff this weekend: I already described, that adjusting the global output EQ to -4 db on bass was making a huge difference to the sound. It was much more comparable to Bayou's reamping.

    Additionaly, I analyzed the frequency curves of both signals and indeed saw a difference in the bass/low low mid area of about -4/-4.5 db.

    and some missing ~2 db somewhere across 1 hz-5hz, which I already interpreted as "my sound is not quite 'there'.

    I can match the frequencies somehow, but of course not perfect (different interfaces with spdif vs analog input/preamp + cables are playing a role here.).


    But now ALL of the profiles are sounding pretty cool. I can chug my metal stuff without producing a boomy mess or muddy sound.

    If I compare my sounds to that from youtube videos or profilers I can really see similarities. Earlier I always thought that these videos are heavily modified. I can't say how many hours I played this weekend through my countless profiles....and nearly all of them are usable now! Some are meh, some are incredible! God dammit, I can even use stuff like green scream and other distortion pedals and they are altering the sound to something good. Until this weekend they just produced more rumble and a oversaturated signal.
    I always had problems with fitting bass and my guitars into a mix: Now everything needs more or less minor corrections.

    I can't believe that I didn't realize for nearly 3 years (!) what was wrong with my sound. I always thought that I am the problem. I changed pickups on three guitars, bought another bass guitar, bought a new interface....

    Often, I was quite frustrated and thought I just don't know how to get a good sound.
    But after adjusting the EQ everything is much better: I never had so much fun with my kemper like last weekend =)

    The only bad thing right now is that all of my favourite profiles are now crap. Because I choosed them based on my old non-adjusted EQ ;D


    Thanks again to you all for your answers and contributions.



    I wrote to the support. Maybe they do know what could be wrong with my unit. Perhaps it just needs a little slap or some kind of reset. I'm slightly afraid that there are some additional problems that I'm not aware of....

    We will see.

    Quote from Tick

    Did this ever get resolved?

    Hey,

    totally forgot to reply to this threat. Sry guys.


    Kemper support answerd me quickly each time. A DI file was reamped after a complete reset of my Kemper,

    so I could compare my unit to the one used by the support.

    And I could barely hear a difference. So....my unit is doing what I should; I guess.


    But I still lower the bass quite a bit when I play.

    I don't know what to say really, but all of my initial favourite profiles failed with a band and on recordings. It took a while to find stuff that satisfied everything and definitely made me reconsider my ability to identify good tone. Volume definitely plays a part as does context but I think that for a number of years before my Kemper, I only played decent to very decent amps. They usually sounded great with everything set to noon and you could go from there but didn't really change much; almost as if the designer had deliberately made it to make nothing but good sounds.


    But the Kemper has many more variables based on the monitors used and capture technique and can easily sound bad. But, the good stuff is definitely in there!!

    Hey everybody,


    I had a long break from my Kemper and played mostly with my two Amps and real guitar loudspeakers. Or alternatively with the headphone out on my little blackstar HT5 amp. And everything was fine: Guitar playing was fun again and not just endless fiddeling around with EQ-knobs on the kemper. This frustrated my really a lot and I was sick of playing guitar. I haven't played a song or practiced in about two years, because I'm just endlessly trying rigs and fiddle with knobs.

    Now I rearranged my room,got a new position for my monitor loudspeakers and one of my amps has a defect (can't change channel anymore, but thank god it is stuck in crunch mode, not the clean channel...)

    So I thought why not give the kemper a chance again, because this thing is an expensive device, right?


    My dissappointment came back immediately.

    Guys and girls, please, for the love of god, help me or I'm throwing this thing out of the window!

    This is my last attempt to get rid of my problems. I'm just sick of this device.



    This is the Lars Luettge Th- Mars Silver Jubi A5 Profile, one of the stock profiles.

    Please tell me, that this doesn't sound as boomy in the low end and scooped, when you use it. Especially the woof at about 170 Hz is killing me.

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    Now, If I deactivate the amp section and use the fx send of my little Blackstar Amp into the Kemper, I get a much more balanced low end.

    Note: this sound is done with all EQ on 12 o clock on the Blackstar, that's why it doesn't sound perfect and is a little mid heavy.

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    My "solution" is drastic equalization. In this case, I used

    Global EQ: -5 Bass ,-1.3 Middle, -2 High and +0.3 Presence

    Amp EQ: -2.5 Bass

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    It is not perfect, but at least the absurd amount of bass is gone and this tone is more likey I think it should be.



    So my question is: why do I need these drastic equalization?

    DI through the kemper sounds fine.

    And the loudspeaker simulation sounds fine.

    Kemper by itself sounds as shown above.

    Kemper Monitor out into Fx loop of Blacktar: Boomy+ scooped, as shown in the first sample above.



    My theory is that something is wrong in my amp section....Is this even possible?


    Thanks=)

    The first one sounds good BUT you really have to put it in a full mix to know how good it is.


    The second and third sound thin and yucky with the third one sounding like total poop. I would wind up EQing these drastically in a mix to make them sound better like the first one. Even my wife says the first one is way better.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Like 1

    Thanks for your replies!

    I know it sucks to deal with whiney people, but I just want to have fun playing guitar :/



    DonPetersen

    Sadly, my problem has nothing to do with my monitor situation,

    because my problem occurs on every listening device, including several headphones, my monitors, car, HiFi, ect.

    And normal music or other guitar devices do not have this problem. It only occurs when the Kemper is involved.


    BayouTexan

    I know my stuff sounds like shit, because I'm trying to somehow balance the frequencies so that they make..(how do I say it?)..sonically sense?

    This is why I push high mids/highs to balance the boomy bass which results in, well, a crappy sound.

    If we ignore the overwhelming resonance in the first sample, then I agree with you and your wife.


    I tried something this morning:
    I recorded a quick rif and put Superior Drummer above to simulate a mix.

    I fiddeld around with the low resonance part in the cab module, which helped a lot. Here, I realized I can reduce my problem in two ways: either shift the boomy resonance way down into bass area ( low shift = -4.0 or something crazy), or use some positive values like 0.5-1.0.


    I uset the LL- TH Mars SL 100 I profile and leveld everything quite good.


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    a)Low Shift 0.0

    b)Low Shift 0.5

    c)Low Shift 1.0

    d)Low Shift -0.5


    In my opinion

    a) is too boomy and clashes with the rest of the sound,

    b) sounds way more round and the lows are pushing the guitars

    c) is maybe too few low end, but could work

    d) is exactly overexaggerating what my problem is



    Please tell me: am I just crazy or does it sound better?

    Edited 2 times, last by Nordan ().

    (a) sounds good. The reason why you think it sounds too boomy is because the drum track has absolutely ZERO low end. The Kemper is most certainly working for you, but your ears are not. I am almost tempted to take the (a) track and put it up against my drum track to prove to you that the tone is "there" but you still may not hear it like we do.


    I don't think you are crazy. I think you need to train your ears. I have actually done that myself.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Like 1

    A or B sound the best to me.


    Also hit the guitar buss or folder with a multiband compressor set at where the palm mutes live, something like TDR Nova, and also a hp/lp too.

    It varies, but usually 100-200 hz range you'll see peaks that can be tamed by compressing just that region.

    Quote from Nordan

    I uset the LL- TH Mars SL 100 I profile

    Just 2 cents here: That particular profile sounds a bit boomy for me as well here. Just tried it out of curiosity because usually the LL stuff is rather nice. So, this one I personally wouldn't record this without cutting off some of the low end. Did you try others from that list, e.g. TH - Sold HR50+ 2 or TH - Mars VM410 20. Same then?

    Quote from Nordan

    In my opinion

    a) is too boomy and clashes with the rest of the sound,

    b) sounds way more round and the lows are pushing the guitars

    c) is maybe too few low end, but could work

    d) is exactly overexaggerating what my problem is

    Not a catastrophe I'd say. But here taste comes into the game. BayouTexan voted for a). I'd rather vote for b) and c) might work with more context and a bass player in the mix. d) indeed is the boom.


    Finally: I get your point and it might not be helpful but indeed you need to finetune a few things. Beginning with your ears and monitoring situation. If references sound fine there. Then profiles with particular guitars are next...

    I don’t understand what you are trying to achieve.


    Do you want the kemper to sound like a full mastered guitar track on a drum loop?


    The kemper gives you a realistic tone of a miced guitar amp.


    Getting it to work on a track and sound fantastic is another job.

    take the same profile, record the part at least 4 times, then take out the frequencies, multiband compress as you want on each track to make it fill the song…


    looks like you are asking the kemper to do a complete recording by itself. That’s not possible.

    Try to add in front of the amp a studio equalizer and add a low cut at 100-140 hz, acts like a tube screamer effect where it cuts the lows but doesn't add more gain if you don't boost the studio equalizer. It really helped me especially live wise. This is a trick i saw on the profiles of Josh Middleton.

    Tell us how it's going!

    Hi ... new to this thread :)

    Example A sounds the best and most natural to me. If the Silver Jubilee sounded like in example C, I would sell mine (or wouldn't have bought it in the first place).

    May I ask you one question (and I don't mean it in a negative way):

    When was the last time you played a real 100W Marshall Silver Jubilee head through a V30 loaded 4x12 cab? These suckers will give you a pretty serious chug, considerably less "tight" than e.g. a Mesa amp ... even more on guitars tuned down to D or even C#. And as Don Petersen pointed out, an Engl will be no slouch in the low end either :D

    Your Blackstar HT-5 (is it the combo amp?) is a nice little amp, really. But it certainly lacks the headroom and design to project this much low end. In your case that seems to be what you're looking for or got used to. If you like it ... well, profile it the way you like it. :)

    Quote from DonPetersen

    A Green Scream STOMP helps to get rid of excessive bass and focusses the mids, try low Drive.

    I still think that this should help a lot (as it does with tube amps) by reducing the bass before the distortion and focussing the mids (with the Tone control)
    Use very low Drive settings and aim for a unitiy gain between stomp on/off with Volume, you don't want to add additional saturation or drive the preamp stage of the Profile harder, just use it as a bass reducing and mid focussing device.
    The Lead Booster can get similar results if you 'soften' it a bit by reducing the Mix from 100% to something you like.

    @ all


    I got not much free time today, so sorry for this short reply, I will write a longer one to all of your answers,

    thanks a lot to you all for your replies!



    Maybe I'm indeed crazy: Today it occured to me, that my problem may be indeed this:

    The tone itself is not too bass heavy, which is quite good to hear when I play open chords, so my theory of overamplified bass frequencies is obsolete.

    But when I do some palm mutes, frequencies between 80-160-200 hz get exagerated and this is the point that makes my puke, because the balance between lows and highs( or the volume between pm and open notes) goes all over the place.

    Maybe the kemper is doing this in another way then I'm used to it (, my other amps have spoiled me up until now?).

    If we combine these things with a bad PM technique, you all coud -to my shame- indeed be right.



    I talked with my local gear-dealer and I will perform a side by side test with another unit tomorrow.

    To get that little evil whispering voice out of my head that says something is wrong with my kemper 8)

    Edited once, last by Nordan ().