Is my Kemper amplifying bass/low mids too much or are my guitars crap?

  • I honestly think you are suffering from over analysis/ paranoia. You have a sound in your head and that is what you are chasing.


    I spent the first 18 months doubting my sound, convinced that the KPA was not quite right. So what changed? A couple of things:


    1) I ran my KPA direct rather than through a guitar cab and found all the profiles had been masked by my cab. I relooked at my profiles and it suddenly came "awake"


    2) You get very used to a sound. I loved my ENGL and Laney amps and built this "rosey" view of how good they were. When the KPA didn't sound the same I became disappointed. Ironically when I go back to those sounds, they weren't as good as I remember....


    3) Other people told me how good it sounded - which is so important to me! I trust their ears more than mine!


    4) There is no "magical" answer to great sound. So many things matter in your signal chain including your own technique and playing. Good amps expose bad technique. They also expose duff cabs etc. Whilst the KPA can do it all, its can't solve monitoring issues, interfaces etc. Put it this way, there are too many blind tests and top guitarists getting great sounds that prove the unit is top notch, so it is all in the set up. Majority of it is plug and play, that remaining 5% magic can take time....but I think you are focusing on that 5%...most of your samples sounded pretty good to me!


    I stopped chasing "that sound", took the pressure off myself and boom...happy camper!

  • My two cents:


    All your sounds do sound very right to me.


    Yes, your initial example has some boomy palm mute low end, but that is natural.

    However, the bass drum in your drum track was much more boomy!


    It is a normal step to attenuate and control the palm mute energy in a mix, by applying a low shelf.

    - 6 dB is not a shameful value at all when fitting a guitar amp into a mix.


    For balancing your sound, try different pickup settings and adjust the Amp Definition control to your liking.


    CK

  • Sorry for the delay, I was quite busy this week.


    First of all, I compared my kemper to another one (both global init resetted for comparison)

    and indeed: My kemper is fine, you were right. All of you, BayouTexan , ckemper, and others...



    But I was still hearing the same thing that drove me nuts, but interestingly, not as drastic as before. In the shop, I was using a random Ibanez-guitar with stock pickups. My conclusion was that my guitar pickpus may be a little "hot" and drive the kemper to hard (?).

    I'm now quite sure, that my distortion sense was set too high. Right now it is about -10 and everything sounds way better. The low end is more defined and the profiles are more distinguishable, and the high frequencies are not as piercing anymore. It sounds more...realistic? natural?

    So I'm a big part of the problem. After letting another guy play the guitar, the boomyness was gone completely when he palm muted and everything sounded chunky, but also quite articulated. I think my palm mutes are just too close to the bridge and are way too hard; This leads to too much bass and combined with too much gain, my sound is going downhill. And my real amps do not suffer from my technique, because -especially the Blackstar ht5- is neither a bass, nor a gain-monster.



    Earlier, the palm mutes had to be compressed about 10-12 db to kind of sit in the mix. Now, I'm more in the 6 db range that ckemper is talking about and the fundamental tone is not wobbling around somewhere beneath the guitar, but quite where it should be. Supporting, not fighting the rest of the tone.



    Here is the Sl100 profile again, with lowered distortion sense and adjusted palm muting-position for the "chug chug" stuff:


    a) guitar only, (+ drums), b) especially for BayouTexan, with a more low end/punch bass drum 8)

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    here again, for easier comparisation, the earlier version without changes (the first couple of seconds).

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    I would say the difference is quite drastic. One could speculate to even add some bass.




    In summary:
    too much gain, bad technique and weird equalizing for compensation may have droven me insane.

    And I'm thinking about printing out these quotes to read them from time to time. They are not bad at all.

    I don't think you are crazy. I think you need to train your ears.

    I honestly think you are suffering from over analysis/ paranoia.

    The kemper gives you a realistic tone of a miced guitar amp.


    Getting it to work on a track and sound fantastic is another job.


    Thanks to you all for your replies.

  • I get decent results using a STUDIO EQ as the first stomp. This lets me put in a LOW CUT around 80Hz and also push the mids 300-800Hz when needed. The LOW CUT really helps the palm mutes where you are getting very low freqs / thuds/ etc. 80 is a good starting point. May need to go up to around 100 for really bad bass. You may be limited when using 7 and 8 string guitars with how low you want to go.


    I may also roll some bass off if it still sounds boomy. Maybe 200Hz at -3 dB for example.


    Adding a HIGH CUT can sometimes help reduce noise also. but you need to drop it pretty low like 2500 Hz. Which will affect your attack and high string pinch harmonics.


    You also now have more control of the guitar level entering the AMP section.


    Having any EQ will blur/muddy your sound a little due to the inherent phase relationships of the filters. So A/B testing is always helpful. But at loud volumes it may be hard to hear any difference.


    This first EQ is similar to the AMP DEFINITION control. But you have more options to play with.


    Lately I am also liking the AMP EQ section being PRE AMP. Anything before the amp seems to color the sound less. BUt then you need another EQ after the amp anyway so your mileage may vary.

  • Ok, So stop bitching and start Rockin! :P


    Getting good tone in a mix is always going to be a challenge, but that's the fun part.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • I'm now quite sure, that my distortion sense was set too high. Right now it is about -10 and everything sounds way better. The low end is more defined and the profiles are more distinguishable, and the high frequencies are not as piercing anymore. It sounds more...realistic? natural

    Distortion Sense @ -10 is a very unusual setting.
    I would try lowering the pickup, quite a bit, like three turns of the screwdriver.

  • I've done extensive testing EQ matching with the Kemper and despite what people claim here or gas light you into thinking, it adds much more sub lowend than the real amp, it used to not do this (my old profiles I made in 2015 are proof), but no matter what amp you profile, and no mater what mic or IR you use it adds an excess of sub-low end especially at 40hz. It's easy to hear and see on an analyser. I wouldn't have even analyzed it to begin with but I could tell the low end is NOT the same. It's not my room or speakers (you can tell on headphones too) but the frequency analyzer doesn't lie. Kemper support agreed the profiles had more low end than my recording of the amp but didn't offer a solution. Still a cool tool, I still like the Kemper but don't believe the hype that its indistinguishable, the people that can hear it will hear it and you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure it out.

  • I ran into this the other day getting a profile of my Gallien Krueger 250 ML into a Marshall 4x12.
    Had spent ages getting the mic placement nice so there was not too much proximity effect.
    All sounded great then, the profile came back with a low end that wasn’t there through the mic.
    I had Logic’s real-time eq analyser active while monitoring the profiling and you could clearly see what was being added in the profiling stage. Annoyingly, the refine process almost completely ignored this extra low end.
    Without the analyser , you could clearly hear it through just studio monitors but when I put the profile onto a usb stick and went into my live room and put into one of my Kemper Stage and played it through my Turbosound PA system I have in there, those lows were really bad and clouding the whole bottom end.


    I reprofiled and reprofiled until I got one I was happy with after refining again and again until I managed to get one that was workable.
    It’s definitely adding something that’s not there and the refine process is not picking it up like it should.
    On the GK 250ML, it was between 60 and 80hz that was really noticeably being added. The original mic signal was completely clean with nothing much happening in that area. Only the profile.

  • happy to see that you find your solution in the and! I just wanted to say two things;

    1. It was quite fun to read this topic. Almost feel like a tv serie where you follow the main character’s self reflection haha.

    2. I think you have to find the right tone that works for you at your place in your situation. I think it is the work for a sound engineer to make it work in a mix with a band or in a record. But maybe people will disagree this but I’m courious what their opinions will be then.

  • cool amp, i have one too, never tried to profile it but i love those amps. and yep, i agree, refining totally ignores the extra lowend, my only work around was using an MXR 10 band eq between the amp and the profiler and knocking down all the lowest two bands before I profile, it gets much closer this way, but its not perfect because the subs that it adds are much more complex curves than a graphic eq would provide.


    Christoph will straight up tell you on this forum that the profiling process is perfect though and doesn't have any room for improvement.

  • Nordan you will get some wicked tones out of those...


    Ibanez S5470 with a DiMarzio Evolution2 Pickup

    Ibanez RG1570 with a Seymour Duncan SH6


    those tones aren't bad mate.. in context with a band is where you will know whos who in the zoo


    Something that sounds god- like in your bedroom may not cut it in the studio or live and vice versa - that's the beauty of the game


    I run VAI - DiMarzio Gravity Storm bridge in one of my RG550'S - sounds pure old school eighties metal- that VAI - EVO 2 should produce VERY nice stuff.


    I have already found I get a very brutally honest tone from my ACTIVE FISHMAN FLUENCE in my RGD Ibanez. I run 4 of the same guitars for stage...


    Fishman Active may give you a real instant EQ assessment as they are such great examples of clean slate - almost beautifully sterile


    Whereas my passives like yours are just so much FUN...and take you right there to those moments in music..


    I reckon you will smash it with those

  • Fishman Active may give you a real instant EQ assessment as they are such great examples of clean slate - almost beautifully sterile


    Whereas my passives like yours are just so much FUN...and take you right there to those moments in music..


    I reckon you will smash it with those

    Quite funny,

    I put Fishmans KSE Signature pickups into the 1570 about 3 months ago 8)




    And meanwhile I tend to just use a high cut at 5-8 khz and a low cut at 150-170, mostly when using high gain profiles.

    This gets me rid of the fizz and additional low frequencies that were driving me insane.

    and also quite important: Leaving the pure cab activated, but on zero is helping me alot... before it was just turned off.



    Stuff like Tonejunkie/Mbritt can be used without these cuts.

  • Hi


    i have just scrolled through this whole thread and understand your frustration if you are not used to what a miced amp sounds like in a daw session.


    I listened to your clips with various kemper rigs involved and they sounded great zooming in on the guitar tone. Instruments can mask each others frequencies and mixing is a journey on ots own.

    I have had similar issues with vst plugins where ppl were getting amazing tones and the moment i applied the exact settings shown on youtube it sounded vastly different. I guess 90% of the achievement is a well set up guitar with impeccable playing and editing so that its super tight. And the song and figuring out how to male it sit in the mix.


    here’s what i also think that applies to kemper too - some amps are pickier about guitars than others. An amp profile which had been tweaked to work with a les paul and paf pickups will not perform well with a superstrat with emgs. My prs custom 22 sounds great through a recto and terrible through a marshall.


    The only parameters i touch is definition, eq (remove whistling fqs that my specific guitar produces at around 2.4khz) and making sure pure cab is off on the general settings but also on the profile itslef because some packs just have it engaged by default and it sounds like a cheap zoom pedal. The first two months of working with my kemper i almost gave up and wanted to return it.


    Also food for thought here.


    Back a couple years ago my 5150 tube amp would love one of my guitars but when we tried it with my friends diezel vh4 it sounded like shit compared to his guitar. I mean in the room. But when we miced it there was not that much of a difference. This also means it really depends on your environment, acoustics, how you feel on that particular day…..


    Funnily enough as we were experimenting and switching things around - His guitar sounded like absolute garbage with almost no low end and just some whiny raspy mid with too little gain through my 5150 etc. i later bought a boogie mark 5 and had to switch pickups a few times again - to match the feel and sound of the amp (from ceramic to alnico cause the top end was too much)


    I also realized that sometimes its just about the bridge pickup height. If things are too boomy while being too bright and abbrassive or pumpy just give it a try and listen with your ears and decide what works for you.


    Some of the overhyped overproduced kemper rigs that you can purchase are more mix ready than others which may or may not work for you - live playing with a single guitar vs studio double vs quad tracking.


    ppl also rightfully suggested applying low/hi cuts. I have my main output eq always hard set to 80/8000 and it was one of those simple tweaks that helped me enjoy profiles i absolutely hated before.


    good luck on your journey i am pretty sure you will get there. What you are experiencing is similar to trying tube amps and figuring out why Jimmys tone absolutely slays through his engl rig and when you give it a try it sounds almost depressing. :)



    edit - i have never ever seen anyone do a lo cut at 150-170 that would be too much. I suspect the pickup height to be an issue or perhaps the pickup or wiring? Try other guitars first.

  • ... using an MXR 10 band eq between the amp and the profiler and knocking down all the lowest two bands before I profile, it gets much closer this way, but its not perfect because the subs that it adds are much more complex curves than a graphic eq would provide.

    I also use an EQ before the amp for this purpose. Really seems to help certain profiles.

  • here’s what i also think that applies to kemper too - some amps are pickier about guitars than others. An amp profile which had been tweaked to work with a les paul and paf pickups will not perform well with a superstrat with emgs. My prs custom 22 sounds great through a recto and terrible through a marshall.

    Definately! I found most good amps are also very picky and the Kemper emulates that...fantastic tone and dynamic response is traded for you have to "get it right" with your playing. For example, get an amp that cuts through the mix really well, will also show any mistakes right in your face!

  • a little update from me:


    After another couple of months have passed,

    I had like 100 moments where I thought "something is wrong... no, that can't be it, I must be the problem". I tried and tweaked hundreds of profiles, bought a bunch, tweaked, tried....I'm just loading profile after profile. So you guessed it, I'm still not happy 8)


    Just for the giggles, I bought the Quad Cortex.

    What can I say? The boomy lowend is gone and the high mid clarity is there. hooray!

    It is hard to describe, but I think I know what disturbs me with (my) kemper...the lowend is always a tad too much. Maybe not in terms of absolut volume, but somewhere slightly above the fundamental tone. Like the low end is slightly overbloathed/distorted, which is acompanied by too much low end rumble under 100 hz in whatever profile there is that has enough gain for me. In the past, I tried to hide that with lowering the bass, or setting the high pass to 170 hz or so....and it sounded shit. And after playing a couple of other real amps, trying out some vst plugins....my problem is not me, nor my guitars.

    Whatever you say, at least for ME, it seems that the kemper is not my thing. Maybe I'm oversensitive to woofy low ends which make chugging in a live setting impossible (I even tried a multiband compressor rack unit to tame that. Yes, I really wanted to like and keep the kemper).

    I thank you all for your answers and the help you tried to give to me,

    but this unit is just not my thing.


    To sum it up:

    Bought my kemper, had doubts... -no, it must be me-

    Exchanged 3 sets of pickups, had doubts... -no, it must be me-

    Bought (awesome and expensive) headphones, had doubts...-no, it must be me-

    Bought an 500 € interface for SPDIf and quality headphone amps, had doubts...-no, it must be me-

    Bought the Quad Cortex...and turned on the kemper only once to compare it again after 2 weeks adjusting to the QC, turned it off again and switched on the QC 8)

    I played/practiced more those two weeks than the last 2 years...


    But what speaks for the kemper (and thus, against the QC):

    1. the editor. It sucks major monkey balls to NOT have one ;(

    2.loading presets/captures ( "profiles"). login into smartphone app, choosing one WITHOUT knowing how it sounds, loading it inside the quad cortex, realizing it sucks, delete it.

    3. the effects. The ones in the QC are far inferior. In terms of sound quality and tweakability.

    4.the updates. Neural DSP seems to be either not really interested or ...overstrained ? If you look into the communication since the release, it's just promises.

  • I have tried a few different amps in my studio now and the profiling is definitely adding frequencies that are not originally going into the Kemper.
    Refining ignores it.
    Been profiling my Soldano SLO30 this last two weeks. SLO into Marshall 4x12 with G1275 speakers. SM57 back to the Kemper.
    The original SLO sound going into the Kemper has a natural roll off starting at 80hz and has rolled off by about 60hz.
    The profiles seem to be drawing an almost straight line all the way down to 20hz from 80hz (once the initial peak at 80hz has settled)

    I did search the forum and noticed a long time ago, low end was added to the profiling process as people were saying it was lacking in this area. Maybe this has now been over compensated for?