My Second Song Mix!

  • I made more drum fills for this one, and tried for a more sweeter sounding solo. I guess this is 90's -ish music.


    Please critique how the mix sounds. I think I did better overall than my first song mix. but I still have a mountain to climb with mixing besides the guitar. I need to be way smoother on the solos. The bass track seems to be the most difficult to get right in the mix. I am supposed to be learning guitar not bass. :) 58 more songs to go.


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    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • Until you're able to put some effort into the acoustical problems with your mixing space you're going to struggle with the low end. I've been there myself, and I put it off for far too long before I did anything about it, thinking it couldn't possibly be all that important, even though I knew better.


    I know it's not sexy or nearly as fun as buying a new guitar / amp / profile / etc., but if you make it a priority, the time and money you spend now will pay off every day in satisfaction. Remember, room acoustics always get a vote. And at the moment, you're being outvoted.


    Or, to put it another way...


    I fought the low and the

    low won

    I fought the low and the

    low won


    :)

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • So, do I need "more" low end? in the mix? I don't think any acoustic intricacies will help until I get a reference point, and maybe a real bass guitar will help instead of using Transpose?? I ask if I need more lows because it sounds decent on regular speakers but I don't hear the bass myself when playing on a phone.


    BTW, I re-tracked the solo because I realized I had the tone knob turned all the way down. I only do that when practicing clean tones. I was wondering why the solo sounded kind of dark in this original post.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Edited once, last by BayouTexan ().

  • To my ears, the guitars have too much high mids (around 2-5 kHz) and not enough low mids, where the "beef" lives. The bass, on the other hand, might benefit from a little more in the high mids, and more volume overall. Kick could come down a touch.

  • I don't think any acoustic intricacies will help until I get a reference point

    I think once you address some of the issues in your mix environment you may see that in a different light.


    I know what you're looking for is "increase the bass by 3db at 800k with a Q of .5" but that's not really the help that you need at this point.


    If expense is an issue (and isn't it always at some point?) let us know when you have x amount of dollars that you can apply to treating your room and you'll get a lot of useful (and battle tested) suggestions for that amount of money.


    Also, did you try whippinpost91850's suggestion about the closet doors?

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • No closet. I have basically 4 walls (90* angles) with a double french door (wood and glass) and wood floors.


    If bass is the problem, then I'd rather buy an actual bass instead of using a guitar with Transpose before buying acoustic panels, and I plan to move to a larger room later on. That's where I would invest on treatment.


    I just need to get a good demo mix for a reference to get me in the ball park. I am not sure I can use any song mix off the internet and play through my monitors to get a good reference since those are all mp3 compressed and not raw wav files. ??

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • the problem you are probably having, is a build up of bass frequencies in your room.

    Buying a bass won’t solve that problem, you need to add bass traps in the corners

    It’s all about room treatment. If you’re, at all handy, it’s really cheap and inexpensive to build the traps. You can make the traps so they can easily be moved

  • the problem you are probably having, is a build up of bass frequencies in your room.

    Buying a bass won’t solve that problem, you need to add bass traps in the corners

    It’s all about room treatment. If you’re, at all handy, it’s really cheap and inexpensive to build the traps. You can make the traps so they can easily be moved

    I can't figure how that will let me know how to EQ "bass" into a mix. When listening to songs mixed by pro record labels (youtube vids, mp3, etc.), I hear bass, mids, trebles all over the place. Some mixes sound great and some sound blah (also depends on the song itself). It seems that putting up acoustics will still have me in the same place if I don't know what frequencies to raise, drop, or spread.


    Are you suggesting that bass traps will spread out the frequencies more so I can pick them out easier in the mix? What about mixing with studio headphones then?


    Sorry, not trying to be hard-headed if I come off that way. I am a total noob at this stuff.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • the bass traps will stop bass frequencies from building up in your room. The built up frequencies give you a false since of the bass you have in the mix.
    ‘if you’re mixing with headphones it won’t matter, but most all headphones accentuate different frequencies

  • I record ALL my tracks with Headphones as i record mostly late at night when the family are in bed. I'd try recording using a pair of studio style headphones rather than speakers, that way initially you wouldn't have to spend allot on acoustic treatment. I use Presonus HD7 headphones, the are around £40 (uk) brand new and do a great job for me.


    If you are recording using speakers and plan to continue recording in this fashion then everyone's advice above is what you should aim for.


    I'd try headphones though just to see how this changes your perception of the overall EQ and mix.


    I'm no producer, i'm not even a very good guitarist but writing and recording makes me happy and keeps me sane. My advice to anyone wanting to record their music is record EVERY idea you have and build it up into a song, it doesn't have to be the best song in the world but you never know where you may end as you start to layer up. Keep moving forward with every idea and don't initially focus on mixing the same song 5 or 6 times. Also by constantly recording your ideas your mixing skills will improve.


    Your mixes are definitely improving

  • As I have indicated in the thread about your other tune, I have the strong (!) suspicion that you are not able to hear all the information you need for mixing (setup of monitors and room).


    When I listen with cheap earbuds it is "not so noticeable". But as soon as played back with proper studio monitors it is VERY, VERY obvious that you deal with masive problems you are maybe not even aware of. Because you can not hear it in your room.


    We are talking about only basic double tracked guitars, bass and drums here. And your "mix" is sounding way off.


    You are one of the nicest guys here in the forum!!! And you have and bring lots of joy and fun to the forum. But the truth about your mix is pretty brutal ? But I think it doesn't help to live in an illusion.


    Listening with superior monitoring systems will clearly reveal, that the track can not be easily fixed at this point.


    EQ in a mix (changing the volume of frequencies) is used to reduce masking effect, so that you can hear every instrument. You also want to give each instrument its place in the stereo field.

    If you are not able to hear an accurate impression and know how it translates to other systems, you CAN NOT create a good sounding, balanced mix. It's impossible!


    As it is, your mix is pretty unbalanced. The stereo image is very weird, guitars sound horrible thin, anemic, distant and separated from the rest, kick too boomy, instruments volumes are not balanced to each other, the solo is not in time at all...


    It's is impossible to improve, when you don't tackle the problem at source! It's a waste of time otherwise.


    If you already have good monitors, it's choice of room, room treatment and accurate studio monitor placement. There is no way around it.

    Edited once, last by Ibot39 ().

  • If you are listening to a commercially released recording in a perfectly treated room with perfectly flat response monitors set in perfect positions, your ears will receive all areas of the frequency spectrum at the correct level as the mix engineer / mastering people intended.


    In real life, your monitor speakers will artificially make some parts of that spectrum louder or quieter than they should be. Your room / speaker positions can make this far, far worse.


    Then we have your ears.... it’s entirely possible that years of abuse have taken off the top end of your hearing.


    You cannot do much about this last point. The rest? You can address. I treated my little room here by building panels out of 4” acoustic density rock wool which were encased in wooden frames and covered with breathable fabric. I’ve got one on the ceiling, one on each wall closest to my monitors, behind the monitors and then there are massive wall to ceiling efforts to make a vocal wall (for when I record the vox) and the wall opposite. Cost me around £250 all in and made my monitor speakers sound considerably more expensive :).


    I am still not great at mixing - it takes a lot of time, effort and experience. But at least now when I make bad decisions in a mix, it’s on me rather than unavoidable due to me not being able to hear it accurately because of the room.


    Put it this way. If I started painting portraits, I’d suck at first. Experience would make me better.


    Trying to mix in a room that is untreated is like trying to paint a portrait in the dark..... it means you’ll end up with a crap picture and, furthermore, you’ll have little chance of improving because you can’t see / hear what is actually happening so you never learn repeatably what works and what doesn’t.

  • I'll do my next mix solely with studio headphones as Franjoe30 suggests and see if that helps clear up the bass issue. That way I'll know if my ears are working correctly. Then go to making some corner treatments for the walls.


    Ibot39 had the harshest critiques! So, I just remind him that I've only been playing guitar for less than 3 years, and playing bass and drums for only a couple of weeks - mixing that same amount time. But I still welcome the comments because it drives me harder to be better, and I don't want to waste time on the wrong way as he rightfully suggested.


    Thanks all! I'm your biggest fan!

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • BayouTexan

    I remember doing my first mixes (many years ago) in the bedroom with speakers on the shelf pointing over my head. Sounded quite good... but only with those speakers in that room :D


    For the rest of the world it sounded like shit ||

    But noone told me at that time. So I put it on Myspace, was proud and people friendly praised it. Later I heard the recordings and songs on various monitors of friends... holy shit, what a nasty, phasy, ugly shit was this?!:D:D


    The cassette demo tapes recorded on the floor of the practice room had better "mixing" ?


    Eye-opener was the first time sitting in the triangle of proper studio monitors in a treated room. The details and sound location across the stereo spread just left me speechless. I didn't know!?

  • Aah, I forgot to tell about my really first mixing experience (which still sounded more balanced than my later work in DAW ?).


    For Black Metal demos I used to...

    1. First record real drums in the cellar with a vintage cassette tape recorder (don't remember the name)

    2. Play the recorded drums through the pa (vocal and keyboard system of my father) with another cassette player

    3. Record the drum playback coming from the pa again with the tape recorder, while layering keyboard sounds (played live with two fingers)

    4. Replay the drums and keys through pa and adding guitars

    5. Repeat with bass and vocals

    6. Copy the songs to one final tape...demo is ready


    Nice natural cellar reverb and a LOT of hiss :D

    True Black Metal Art!