Drowning in tones ...feeling Disturbed

  • Hi guys! Since I bought the Kemper about 6 months ago I have just been downloading and testing hundreds of tones.
    So far I JTM, Choptones and Reampzone is the only place I go to.
    My favorite guitar tone of all time must be Disturbed in their Indestructible era. Not my favorite band, but holy god... that tone
    I am trying to replica that tone for fun and learning and found out they used mostly the Bogner Ecstasy and Mesa Mark V with mesa cabs.
    Anyone have a good tips of how they blended the guitars or how to get close to their tone? Dual or quad tracked and the different setup? I have tried googling a lot but it's not very informative.
    Fun fact: Disturbed uses Kemper when they tour! 8)

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  • First, find out what pickups they use. Then find out what tunings they use. Then select a harsh and bright profile. Bingo! ;)

    That's a good advice! I will look into it and see what I find out. But for now I am not trying to replicate it 100 % though. I have EMG and Seymour humbucker, so it's pretty close to what they use.
    I am also curious if I can get a close sound with the gear I have :)

  • also note how little bass the tones have - too much low mids and bass are the most common mistakes guitarists make when choosing/tweaking tones.
    @ 0.55 a tone comes in with a weird midrange resonance - probably sounds great in the mix.


    probably the best tool to 'fix' overly bassy/dull tones in a DAW is the (free) Elysia Niveau EQ (tilt eq), set a crossover frequency, reduce bass and increase treble by just turning one knob. Once you get an ear for this kind of (insert over-used term 'mix ready') tone, it'll be easier to dial this in directly at the PROFILER.


    This is IMHO more fundamental then the pickups/amps/etc. used in a certain recording.
    For this you need an engineers/producers perspective, not a guitarists one ("I like how the palm mutes nearly knock over the lead singer...") :D


    https://www.elysia.com/plugins/niveau-filter/

  • I love Disturbed. This track sounds like it could be duplicated using a Friedman BE OD or Friedman Small Box pedal. Both of those pedals would get you into this realm.


    I have to imagine that there is a profile of a Mesa out there that sounds similar to this as well. Look around for some free profiles of a Mesa Dual Rec or a Mark V. I have a Mesa Roadster and I am betting with a little bit of tweaking I could get it in the neighborhood.


    As Don said, pay close attention to the low end on this track. It is tight and controlled. It doesn't have a large amount of low end. That will be key when trying to use this tone in a mix. I would look here first if you find a profile that isn't quite there but is getting close.

  • Also note that isolated track has way less gain than you'd expect too as that's another common mistake

  • Thanks for more great advices again. I will look for those pedals too.

    Did you mean to use that Elysia EQ on individual guitar tracks or in the guitar bus track?


    But about EQ Plugins = you can achieve the same result with every free EQ plugin that follows your DAW. It has become a big business selling plugins these days, and many of them you could be without. That Elysia EQ plugin is not free btw, it requires online login, activation and then 14 days trial. Lot of these plugins comes with a fancy interface and just some knobs you can turn, but all they do is boost or cut low / high frequencies. I rather see exactly what I am doing.

    But when you talk about cutting low ends (bass), you mean doing that on the Kemper / source or later with post EQ?
    Cutting the bass at the amp vs cutting it later with EQ creates a very different tone.
    That is probably an interesting topic by itself and what you can achieve.

    Also by experience if you cut a lot of low-end frequencies to get a clearer / crispier mix, it sort of kill the mix.
    Bass can also lift a mix and make it sound more powerful. The Clayman album by In Flames is a testament to that.
    But I think that was more to the powerful drums and thick bass on top of crisp guitars.

  • I like how everyone is saying how diminished the bass is to get this sound, but all the detuned guys think they have to have these big amps with giant transformers and OS recto cabs to push the bass when most of that bass ends up being extracted to make it tight.

    In reality, all that bass translates OK when you're standing in front of your cab but not so good in the mix. I totally agree with almost all the responses here. I think people just get it in their heads that lower bass = thin. I don't think the guitar has a lot to offer under 125 hz in a mix. Let the bass take that space.

  • I like how everyone is saying how diminished the bass is to get this sound, but all the detuned guys think they have to have these big amps with giant transformers and OS recto cabs to push the bass when most of that bass ends up being extracted to make it tight.

    In reality, all that bass translates OK when you're standing in front of your cab but not so good in the mix. I totally agree with almost all the responses here. I think people just get it in their heads that lower bass = thin. I don't think the guitar has a lot to offer under 125 hz in a mix. Let the bass take that space.

    I remember this austrian Death Metal /FRamus endorsers that did this to the extreme. They played two Framus Cobras and they sounded incredible. Heavy, & evil but also defined.
    Turns out there was no bass on the guitars but a huge tone from the (happy) bass player.

  • It depends a lot. There are many ways to mix. And many secrets we probably still don't know about.
    I usually make the mix around the guitar sound and use that as a foundation. That way I don't have to over-EQ it.
    When you just hear the guitar, I use a special guitar sound just for this (lots of lows), but when the drums and bass come in then I switch to a more low-cut sound with more mid range and also cut the highs (no need above 10 000 hz, it just fight with the drums / cymbals).


    The bass I use to fill up what the guitar lacks = always lots of lows and cut the mids and often high pass the highs.
    I don't want to hear the bass, but I love that the entire mix "dies" if I remove the bass. Then it's done it's purpose in my ears.

    But there are no rules. If it sounds good, it's good. And remember to mix with your ears, not eyes.

  • turns out there was no bass on the guitars but a huge tone from the (happy) bass player.

    I remember in the later 80's-early 90 when guitarists were doing the big scoop sounds that had tons of low end. Bass players were drowned out and covered up. I'd hear them say "I might as well just turn it off". Then bass players started having this real midrangy cutting, springy sound with less bass to be heard through the detuned, bass heavy guitars. So the guitars were playing bass and bass taking the middle.

  • that's a pretty common approach when the guy doing the mix is also the guitarist ;)

    Probably, but not me cause I love a good drum and bass sound too. If your mix has a bad drum sound, everything will fall apart. But you have to have a foundation when you mix. Or you will just mix into oblivion. I mean you have to cling onto something and have a vision before you start. Worst thing is a guitar tone that is EQ'ed to death. It doesn't sound like a guitar anymore.
    It doesn't mean I don't EQ, but I just EQ enough so I don't alter the guitar tone. I just remove away the honky-ness, the low ends you don't need and adds some crispness and mids if needed. But when you turn off and on your EQ your guitar tone shouldn't change.
    I either base my mix on the drum or guitar sound. And last I add bass, because it's not the focus. It should just add more punch to the drums and fill out the guitar frequencies.
    When it all fits together like a molded glow and every part serve each other you have a good mix. I am very against that every instrument in the mix should be crisp and clearly. You just end up with everything sounded separated and not as a unit.


    Also getting a good sound from the start is alpha and omega. Keep finding that guitar tone, even if it takes weeks.
    You can't fix a turd.

    Good sounding albums to me: In Flames - Clayman. Nirvana - teen spirit. Metallica - Load / Ride the lightning. Disturbed - Indestructible.
    It's more about the impact and feel you get from the mix.

    I absolutely hate Disturbed last album. It's mixed by the same guy who mixed Five finger death punch. It's brickwalled and compressed and has this "ssshhh" hissing sound all over. Horrible. It's like it got every life squeezed out of it.
    That guy sure rides the throne of loudness war.

  • I remember in the later 80's-early 90 when guitarists were doing the big scoop sounds that had tons of low end. Bass players were drowned out and covered up. I'd hear them say "I might as well just turn it off". Then bass players started having this real midrangy cutting, springy sound with less bass to be heard through the detuned, bass heavy guitars. So the guitars were playing bass and bass taking the middle.

    Like this? :D

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  • If your mix has a bad drum sound, everything will fall apart.

    Ever heard the Beatles albums? Or the old Kiss Casablanca vinyls ? (bad drum sounds)Those albums sold more than the over compressed loudness adjusted "super mix" albums ever will. Good songs> good drum sounds.

  • Like this? :D

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    Or Metallica "justice". If I had to learn those bass parts I' be screwed. But I was saying this mostly from my own band experience with members using tones like that.

  • Well on Justice album they turned the bass all the way down on purpose. There are a lot of remixed albums on youtube where you can feel and hear the bass. It does actually sound a bit weird since it fights with the scooped guitars a lot. But if you want to practice, I mean.


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  • Ever heard the Beatles albums? Or the old Kiss Casablanca vinyls ? (bad drum sounds)Those albums sold more than the over compressed loudness adjusted "super mix" albums ever will. Good songs> good drum sounds.

    How much an album sells has nothing to do with how well it's mixed. Not sure you why you even mentioned that.
    Also how much something sells doesn't equate if it's good / bad / whatever. If following that logic Justin Bieber is one of the best artists of all time :p