Adjusting volume for different profiles

  • Hey everyone, new Kemper stage user here and about to play a slew of shows this month. I'm curious what everyone's go to method is for adjusting the volume differences from profile to profile. Should I just bring up/down the master volume or should I bring up/down the profiled amp volume instead? I don't have my Kemper in front of me so I can't remember if these volumes are different or not.

  • I use the volume in the amplifier module. That way I can keep rig volume at noon for "normal" and morph rig volume for leads and see the ring move. If I used rig volume, It would be going all over and I wouldn't have a good reference point to quickly dial up lead volumes consistently. I recall a video with MB saying he does this also. (use amp volume) Some will say to use rig volume but the manual reads about rig volume: Use this parameter to adjust the level of each Rig to suit a song in a set list, we don’t recommend using it to balance the levels between all the Rigs.

    I was concerned this would drive the reverb & delay harder but was told by a reliable member, ( I never tested it driven real hard) that somehow things before the rev and delay won't drive them harder (magic?)  There is a recent thread about this and some older ones too where we discussed this in bit of detail.

  • I use the volume in the amplifier module. That way I can keep rig volume at noon for "normal" and morph rig volume for leads and see the ring move. If I used rig volume, It would be going all over and I wouldn't have a good reference point to quickly dial up lead volumes consistently. I recall a video with MB saying he does this also. (use amp volume) Some will say to use rig volume but the manual reads about rig volume: Use this parameter to adjust the level of each Rig to suit a song in a set list, we don’t recommend using it to balance the levels between all the Rigs.

    I was concerned this would drive the reverb & delay harder but was told by a reliable member, ( I never tested it driven real hard) that somehow things before the rev and delay won't drive them harder (magic?)  There is a recent thread about this and some older ones too where we discussed this in bit of detail.

    Ok cool. I think I'll give that a try then. Yes I did see an older thread on this but the forum had suggested a create a new one when I posted on the old one lol. Sorry if I've created a duplicate thread.

  • I use the volume in the amplifier module. That way I can keep rig volume at noon for "normal" and morph rig volume for leads and see the ring move. If I used rig volume, It would be going all over and I wouldn't have a good reference point to quickly dial up lead volumes consistently. I recall a video with MB saying he does this also. (use amp volume) Some will say to use rig volume but the manual reads about rig volume: Use this parameter to adjust the level of each Rig to suit a song in a set list, we don’t recommend using it to balance the levels between all the Rigs.

    I was concerned this would drive the reverb & delay harder but was told by a reliable member, ( I never tested it driven real hard) that somehow things before the rev and delay won't drive them harder (magic?)  There is a recent thread about this and some older ones too where we discussed this in bit of detail.

    This is a great idea. I am glad you posted that. I haven't set my morphs up yet and now I will do them this way. I like the idea of being able to see some lights change to show me that my volume just got bumped up.

  • Sorry if I've created a duplicate thread.

    Doesn't bother me any. I'm not one of those people that get uptight when somebody posts on a "zombie" thread either. Sometimes later info or questions are just as relevant as hen they were first asked. Sometimes search engines don't get me the posts I'm looking for.

    I like the idea of being able to see some lights change to show me that my volume just got bumped up.

    Right, so I set up my volumes to be even with amp volume then I can see on rig volume ring: "Ok +3 over that is a good solo volume". And use that as a reference when morphing. Back to noon is my "normal volume" Pretty soon you get to see what is the right amount for volume boosts and can duplicate them where needed. Sometimes clean/distortion sounds will react differently because of compression but that is the reason for the reference so you can start somewhere you know. If you used rig volume for leveling, it would be harder to obtain that reference quickly.

    Of course to really set volumes you need to be playing in a mix. I can't tell you how many times I have sat in my room getting clean, distortion and boost levels "perfect" just to find out they are nowhere near close when actually playing live. And the FOH will have a different opinion as well. I will try to satisfy them as a priority, so they're not jacking my levels around if something is poking out. When trying out new performances during soundcheck, I'll ask "how are my clean/dirty/ boost levels? Once I get an OK, I know I'm on the right track and add that to my knowledge setting them up at home. Normally people will set clean sounds too loud and make their distortions sound wimpy when switched. And I found I usually need a LOT more boost that I would have thought I needed at home to get to album "lead level".

  • This is a great idea. I am glad you posted that. I haven't set my morphs up yet and now I will do them this way. I like the idea of being able to see some lights change to show me that my volume just got bumped up.

    I set up volume boosts on the tap button. That way if I add some effects too, I can go right back to where I started with one button press instead of having to tap dance through effects to shut them off when I come out of a lead back into vocals. When you sing lead and play lead, tap dancing isn't an option. I love that the KPA gives me that option.

  • Doesn't bother me any. I'm not one of those people that get uptight when somebody posts on a "zombie" thread either. Sometimes later info or questions are just as relevant as hen they were first asked. Sometimes search engines don't get me the posts I'm looking for.

    Right, so I set up my volumes to be even with amp volume then I can see on rig volume ring: "Ok +3 over that is a good solo volume". And use that as a reference when morphing. Back to noon is my "normal volume" Pretty soon you get to see what is the right amount for volume boosts and can duplicate them where needed. Sometimes clean/distortion sounds will react differently because of compression but that is the reason for the reference so you can start somewhere you know. If you used rig volume for leveling, it would be harder to obtain that reference quickly.

    Of course to really set volumes you need to be playing in a mix. I can't tell you how many times I have sat in my room getting clean, distortion and boost levels "perfect" just to find out they are nowhere near close when actually playing live. And the FOH will have a different opinion as well. I will try to satisfy them as a priority, so they're not jacking my levels around if something is poking out. When trying out new performances during soundcheck, I'll ask "how are my clean/dirty/ boost levels? Once I get an OK, I know I'm on the right track and add that to my knowledge setting them up at home. Normally people will set clean sounds too loud and make their distortions sound wimpy when switched. And I found I usually need a LOT more boost that I would have thought I needed at home to get to album "lead level".

    Actually found the mbritt video on YouTube where he explains this. He uses either the amp/cab volume which act the same to either turn up/down his profiles. Going to give this a try tonight.

  • He uses either the amp/cab volume

    It would seem weird and unnatural in my way of thinking to turn up or down a cab. Turning an amp up or down however would be completely natural, and it works for me. I'll have to watch that again because I don't recall him mentioning cab volume to level but he for sure could have. Maybe when switching cabs with the same profile? That was a good, down to earth video. He doesn't get nerdy with it, just gets the job done well. (not that I dislike nerdy by all means).

  • Actually found the mbritt video on YouTube where he explains this. He uses either the amp/cab volume which act the same to either turn up/down his profiles. Going to give this a try tonight.

    sdeyoung could you share that mbritt link where he explains this please?

    Rik


    Kemper toaster >Kemper remote> 2 x Alto TS310 powered speakers Furman M-8XAR

  • It would seem weird and unnatural in my way of thinking to turn up or down a cab. Turning an amp up or down however would be completely natural, and it works for me. I'll have to watch that again because I don't recall him mentioning cab volume to level but he for sure could have. Maybe when switching cabs with the same profile? That was a good, down to earth video. He doesn't get nerdy with it, just gets the job done well. (not that I dislike nerdy by all means).

    Yeah I think he’s just saying that the volumes are the same whether you’re on the cabinet or amp. He definitely does say cabinet at the start.



    it’s around the 28:12 mark I believe.

  • It sounds like the volume in the cabinet section works the same control found in the amp section? I'll have to check that out.

    Years ago we had a volume parameter in the cabinet. But when we introduced the ability to create Direct PROFILEs (without cabinet) we migrated this volume into the amp. Since then there is only an Amp Volume and no Cabinet Volume.

  • Hi, Burkhard.

    Years ago we had a volume parameter in the cabinet. But when we introduced the ability to create Direct PROFILEs (without cabinet) we migrated this volume into the amp. Since then there is only an Amp Volume and no Cabinet Volume.

    Does the Amp Volume affect the sound or behavior of the Effects, or is the Amp Volume applied at the end after the Effects and before the Cabinet? (or someplace else)




    Thanks!

  • I wanted to know this too....


    In a post I was reading(Best Way to Equalize Volume Between Rigs and Performances on Kemper Stage)

    Wheresthedug experimented and reported this:


    "Not all FX are volume sensitive though. It is tempting to think that the Delay or Reverb would get overloaded by turning up the Amp volume but this doesn't happen.

    Interesting....

    And:


    You can test it yourself by putting a compressor in a post Amp FX block. Raise amp volume with the compressor Off. Turn the Compressor On and observe the difference. Now do the same with either reverb or delay you shouldn’t get any difference. I believe the impact is FX type specific rather than position specific. i.e. it doesn’t matter what slot the Compressor or Delay are in the results should be the same. The alternative would be that the Fx type doesn’t matter but rather any FX in the Delay or Reverb slot wouldn’t be affected by changes in the amp volume for example a Compressor wouldn’t be affected by Amp volume changes if it was placed in the Reverb slot. I can’t remember if I tested that (I think I did but the old grey matter isn’t up to much these days 😆). part of me wants to believe that it is the FX position rather than type which makes the difference as this would make sense with the ability to tap the signal after Mod or send separate Delay/Rev signal to its own output but The other version also makes intuitive sense to me so try a quick test and report back with your findings.


    Repeating a couple possible scenarios:


    "I believe the impact is FX type specific rather than position specific. i.e. it doesn’t matter what slot the Compressor or Delay are in the results should be the same.

    The alternative would be that the Fx type doesn’t matter but rather any FX in the Delay or Reverb slot wouldn’t be affected by changes in the amp volume for example a Compressor wouldn’t be affected by Amp volume changes if it was placed in the Reverb slot."


    I wonder what the official answer might be from Kemper support?

  • CKemper posted in a discussion about clean sense :


    If you want to have it locked, (clean sense) but tame volume differences of different rigs (either clean or more gain), than it is recommended to adjust this with the Rig Volume.


    But.. the manual states: RIG VOLUME: Use this parameter to adjust the level of each Rig to suit a song in a set list, we don’t recommend using it to balance the levels between all the Rigs.


    I tend to take directions very literally, so this seems to be a contradiction? Or am I missing something between the lines? Maybe he meant to say: "If you want to have it locked, (clean sense) but tame volume differences of different rigs in a set list...?

     

    With this statement I'm understanding not to use rig volume to balance all rig levels (and to use amp volume ?)


    So I'm a bit confused as what is the "proper way" if there is one. The "MB way" (amp volume) makes sense to me so I will likely continue that method unless there is a good reason I don't know of not to. Besides I already have my unit set up this way and I don't detect any issues.