Double Tracker

  • Did you listen to the sample posted? None of that is helpful for this problem. This is clearly an issue that should be looked at.

    I was listening at quiet levels before but listened again louder to see it was not a phasing issue. I stand corrected. Thanks. I do not have that particular problem at all with any DT; Kemper DT, Chromatic DT, or Mimiq.


    But for solving phasing issues using DT's my original reply stands.

    The more you find what Kemper can do then the harder you try to find what it cannot do -- like make a good cup of Frappuccino.

  • well... ive had an hour fiddling over the weekend. Was quite pleased with the results but didn't try with headphones.

    It does seem to sound more natural around 5.0 but I'd have liked to have more looseness available also. Could just use a delay instead I guess though. Pinched harmonics sound great loosely doubled.

    I'm assuming 0.0 looseness = tight or effect off. Im think for morphing purposes ?

  • I´ve also tested the Doubletracker. Basically it comes very close to the Mimiq, but I also have this "pulsating" sound (the right side gets quieter from time to time).

    I also noticed that when you change rigs there is a strong pulsation, as if you were playing over a leslie-box for a few seconds. I copied the default crunch rig and switched it back and forth. The DTRK was in default mode (looseness 5.0, stereo 100%, detune 0.0 cent).


    Listening to this clip, as well as the first one I posted, it appears that there's very strong phase cancellation happening from time to time, which almost sounds like a click as the audio gets swallowed up.


    Till that gets resolved, I would be quite sceptical of using this in a live situation, just for fear that the audio will "fold" into itself like that and create an artifact that sounds like I messed up while playing.


    The Mimiq doesn't do this, neither does the Strymon Deco that I usually use for double tracking.


    It is very infrequent, which gives me hope that Kemper Amps is capable of figuring out how to prevent it from happening.


    After all, this is a beta, so I don't want to jump the gun and say it doesn't work, when it is entirely possible this is something that the company has already taken stock of and is working to rectify.

  • well... ive had an hour fiddling over the weekend. Was quite pleased with the results but didn't try with headphones.

    It does seem to sound more natural around 5.0 but I'd have liked to have more looseness available also. Could just use a delay instead I guess though. Pinched harmonics sound great loosely doubled.

    I'm assuming 0.0 looseness = tight or effect off. Im think for morphing purposes ?

    Tight. Definitely still on.

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
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  • After all, this is a beta, so I don't want to jump the gun and say it doesn't work, when it is entirely possible this is something that the company has already taken stock of and is working to rectify.

    Absolutely! I totally like the FX too and hope Kemper will fix that.

    Actually, I just wanted to hear if others have the problem too, or whether it is due to my Kemper Stage.


    In the example I posted before, I changed the rig after every attack, as this was the most dramatic problem to me.

    I have now run a sine tone through the Kemper in order to have an even tone without an attack.

    Here's an example where I was switching the rig that I had copied before.

    The rig is without the amp and the cab section, just the DTRK.



    I really couldn't get the pulsating sound with the sine tone. However, the DTRK makes a "moving sound", that keeps moving from right to left.



    Then I rotated the panorama once to the left and once to the right in the rig menu of the Kemper.

    You can hear an increase and decrease of the sine tone.



    Perhaps it is intentional or impossible to do otherwise. When changing rigs, however, I found it extremely annoying.

  • Is it possible to run Wet/Dry/Wet and hear the Double Track effect from the Main Outputs?


    It looks and sounds to me like the EQ effect is NOT sent to the DLY/REV Wet. So the Double Track Effect isn't included.


    Here's what I've tried

    PowerRack

    • Monitor output to Kemper Kabinet
    • Stereo Outputs to Left and Right FOH

    This is how I've configured things to do Wet/Dry/Wet. Is this correct?


    With things set up as above, when I enable Double Track, it comes out in mono through the Monitor.


    The only way I've been able to get the full Double Track effect is to set the Main Output source to Master Stereo.


    Is it possible to run Wet/Dry/Wet and get the Double Track effect from the Main Outputs?


    Thanks!



  • This is not how I would run a wet/dry/wet setup if I wanted to use the double tracker. As the name implies, it's a stereo effect, and if you run it in mono, you will encounter a tonne of problems/it won't work the right way.


    You would need to figure out some kind of compromise here really.


    Why are you only running a delay/reverb wet signal, I'm curious to know? I was always under the impression that wet/dry/wet doesn't mean you just output a reverb and delay signal. Instead, you send an effected signal, whereas the centre signal is dry.


    If you feed that signal to the FOH, it is going to sound lousy at a gig. You need to feed your tone to the FOH more than anything else.


    If you're referring to just monitors at home, I still think you'd get better tone with some of your unaffected signal blended in. You could always adjust the mix of the wet effects if you are aiming for that spacey sound. That way, you'd be able to use the double tracker too.


    For your signal to the Kone, I'd just go with a stack setting, because the double tracker will be pointless when fed to a single cab. If you want to test this out, just send your stereo signal to your monitors and pan it to the centre. You'll hear all kinds of problems with phasing and phase cancellation.

  • This came from a Kemper moderator about W/D/W for the Stage:

    MONITOR OUTPUT with Output Source "Stack" and the usual Kone settings.

    MAIN OUTPUT with Output Source "DLY/REV Wet" to full-range cabinets.

    HEADPHONE OUT to FOH, or S/PDIF OUT with Output Source "Master Stereo" or just mono via SEND 1 with Output Source "Master Mono".

  • Thanks for jumping in.

    This came from a Kemper moderator about W/D/W for the Stage:

    MONITOR OUTPUT with Output Source "Stack" and the usual Kone settings.

    MAIN OUTPUT with Output Source "DLY/REV Wet" to full-range cabinets.

    HEADPHONE OUT to FOH, or S/PDIF OUT with Output Source "Master Stereo" or just mono via SEND 1 with Output Source "Master Mono".

    If you set
    MONITOR OUTPUT with Output Source "Stack"

    and

    MAIN OUTPUT with Output Source "DLY/REV Wet"


    Anything you put in slots X or MOD will not be heard.

    That's why I set

    MONITOR OUTPUT with Output Source "Mod Mono"


    But of course, that sounds less than optimal because the Double Track (or anything in X or MOD) is only heard through the Monitor output, not the Main Output in stereo where I want to hear it.

  • Hi nightlight.



    This is not how I would run a wet/dry/wet setup if I wanted to use the double tracker. As the name implies, it's a stereo effect, and if you run it in mono, you will encounter a tonne of problems/it won't work the right way.

    You're right - it doesn't work and that's why I asked the question. I was showing what I had already tried, and hoping someone would have a suggestion about how to do Wet/Dry/Wet with the Double Tracker.


    As for "Why are you only running a delay/reverb wet signal, I'm curious to know? "


    I just got the PowerRack and Kabinet and I'm experimenting.


    I normally run direct to the Front of House (FOH) system. I haven't used a guitar cab for a stage monitor. So today I'm fooling around with the Kabinet.


    I've read about others here running Wet/Dry/Wet so I was curious to check it out. I was having fun with it until I tried to use the Double Tracker.


    For me, it's unlikely I'd run Wet/Dry/Wet in a live situation unless I ran three lines to the FOH engineer.

    1. Mod Mono
    2. Delay/Rev wet (Left)
    3. Delay/Rev wet (Right)

    The FOH engineer could send back a monitor mix to me and do whatever was appropriate with the three sources for the FOH mix.


    For now, I'm just playing with my new gear to find out what I can do with it.

  • Stereo Monitor signal would help your case - to set this up you need two Kones in stereo or 2 Kemper Kabs or two guitar cabs and a stereo amp. That way you would have stereo dry in the middle and stereo wet outside those.


    Edit - I see support has weighed in with similar idea.

  • if you want to use the double tracker in stereo, place it in the MOD module and use MOD Stereo as the output source for the monitor output and activate the Monitor stereo option.

    Thanks for your reply.


    I'm running the Kemper PowerRack with the monitor output to a Kemper Kabinet. Does this mean I need to get a separate power amp and another Kabinet? I hope not.


    My intention was to do Wet/Dry/Wet so

    • the Monitor is Dry and
    • the Main Outputs are Wet AND get the Double Tracker effect

    Not possible? If it isn't, is there a way to make it possible as a feature / option of the Double Tracker?

  • you need a second cabinet to use the double tracker in stereo. The rev/del wet output source will only provide the wet delay and reverb signal.

    I run stereo to FRFR monitors (my PA) to the Main Output (source: Master Stereo), so I can do that for the Double Tracker.


    I was looking for a way to do the Wet/Dry/Wet thing using my single Kemper Kabinet dry in the centre.


    Please confirm: There's no way to do that? That's not something that could be made a feature of Double Tracking (send it to Main Outputs) with the Delay/Reverb wet signal?


    Thanks.