Don't forget the cabs!

  • GGD? You tried the Zilla or Cali cabs with the Kemper and wasnt happy with these?

    I have Zilla plugin. I did a bunch of a/b tests where I compared my favorite merged profiles with the cabs on, to the same profile with the cab disabled and using Zilla for the cab. Zilla certainly sounded good, but to me the Kemper cabs sounded better. They were somehow beefier and cut more.


    I also have the GGD Gains Kemper pack, which uses Nolly's Zilla and Cali (Mesa) cabs, so I figured I didn't need to get the Cali plugin. I kinda already have it.

  • I just don't see why people want to mess with IRs when it sounds better just using the Kemper. It's like they cannot stand to use the stock thing that sounds great and just have to "customize" it. The Kemper can sound exactly like the amp it profiles. How can you "improve" on that using IR's ? Just play it!

  • A lot of profiles in RE that people like have an IR in cab section (profiled or copied in). Many just don't realize it, cause the rigs are often not sufficiently tagged.


    If you make a direct amp profile and dial the amp in while listening through the IR, the results will be perfectly fine.


    The rest is preference. My main profiles are from a guy that used his Marshall JVM410 direct amp profiles with Ownhammer IR. These rigs also work excellent with other Ownhammer IR and for me sound better than everything else I tried before. And you guys know, I bought almost everything out there.


    I also make my own Kemper profiles with real cabs, but also make my own IR and use commercial IR.

    I don't think Kemper cabs are superior. There are sounds where I prefer the IR.

  • I've always looked at it as the profile was (usually) made with the cabinet included in mind. I know a lot of people on multiple platforms (particularly Helix) love mixing and matching IRs, but I appreciate the ease of use with the cabinets. IRs In my experience require a bit more tweaking.

  • If they sound EXACTLY like the cab they are profiling, how can you better that?

    There have been situations, where I had problems to get the profiles sound exactly like the original signal chain. Even with multiple refining. Adding an IR of the same mic position (captured with neutral poweramp or experimenting with original poweramp, when the direct amp profile contains more preamp distortion) gave me better results sometimes.


    I never had problems capturing exact IR, but getting profiles including cab section nailed accuratly, is not as easy sometimes. You have to dial in your amp with mostly preamp distortion, little power amp distortion, be careful not to push the speakers too much and really give attention about gain staging after the mics - then the Kemper gives very good results!


    But when you think Kemper cabs are much superior now, you should try this: Take a merged rig and shoot an IR of the Kemper cab section. Just takes a few seconds. Then copy this IR to the same rig and compare it to the Kemper cab. Now you will tell me that one sounds better? Or more dynamic? Or what?

    There can be a difference because of the influence of the amp section (even when turned of), but you will hardly notice. Please describe the difference of the original Kemper cab and the IR of that cab. Can you? Try it, you will be surprised.

  • Problem with that is, If I switched between a V30 cab and a Greenback cab it doesn't change for me, but can severely change what the board is getting

    With the preface that this is probably a dumb question, isn't this scenario the reason that FRFRs exist?


    One of the reasons I went with the DXR-10 was the desire to hear, as closely as possible, what the board gets. My thinking was that if I like what I hear coming out of the FRFR then I can be confident that the mix will get the same sound since both are full range speaker systems (and in fact the DXR-10 is really just a small PA speaker pressed into service for a guitar application).


    If you use a different cab on stage, e.g. my Marshall 4x10 / V30s,, and that's the sound you love, that's great. However, you're now juggling two sets of speakers, your personal monitor and the mains, which of course is what this problem is all about.


    Is it not possible to get the tone you enjoy on stage via an FRFR? And if that's the case, wouldn't that mean that you would be unhappy with what comes out of the mains for that very reason?


    My perspective was to start with what sounds good in the mains since that's what people will hear, and then work my way back to my personal monitor due to the expectation that they'd be the same. However, you've been at this a lot longer than me so I'm sure I'm missing something in this equation. Could you help me understand so that I can get better at this?

  • I never had problems capturing exact IR, but getting profiles including cab section nailed accuratly, is not as easy sometimes. You have to dial in your amp with mostly preamp distortion, little power amp distortion, be careful not to push the speakers too much and really give attention about gain staging after the mics - then the Kemper gives very good results!

    Which is exactly why I pay a modest price to have someone with $2,000.00 mics and $4,000.00 preamps do it for me.

    But when you think Kemper cabs are much superior now, you should try this: Take a merged rig and shoot an IR of the Kemper cab section. Just takes a few seconds. Then copy this IR to the same rig and compare it to the Kemper cab. Now you will tell me that one sounds better? Or more dynamic? Or what?

    There can be a difference because of the influence of the amp section (even when turned of), but you will hardly notice. Please describe the difference of the original Kemper cab and the IR of that cab. Can you? Try it, you will be surprised.

    Sorry I don't do IRs or have any reason to. I get amazing sounds right from my Kemper. FOH thinks they are some of the best tones they've ever mixed (they worked for Grammy winning performers before our group) At some point, you can't improve only change. One rig I play sounds EXACTLY like a 74 Marshall miked with super good mics. It's not improvable, it sounds exactly like it does through a pre rola greenback cab.I've heard countless big name artists on stage using a Kemper and absolutely killing it without IR's. (I asked them) The Kemper speaker module has a ton of tweeking power if I need it but I have never had to touch it. When I bought the Kemper I did so because it was quick and easy. I want to play, not monkey around with a bunch of stuff. I would have bought an AX FX then. I'm proficient enough to handle and AX FX and learn everything about it, but I'm tired of messing with a million settings then have some guy with an amp with two knobs blow my tone away.

  • You're probably correct, but even a pair of FRFR speakers isn't going to guarantee that the audience is getting what you hear on stage. In fact I don't think anything can do that. There are so many factors involved. Being on stage in your perfect dialed in comfort zone and out front will always be drastically different and give you aural vertigo. I just strive to get as close as I can and let the sound engineer do his job. People will let me know if it sucks.

  • Sorry I don't do IRs or have any reason to.

    I was suggesting making IR of a Kemper cab, so you can experience yourself, that an IR of a Kemper cab will not sound or feel any different or inferior.


    I remember arguing about the use of IR with a person who brought his favourite MBritt profiles to the table. It turned out that some of his favourites in this pack have IR in the cab section, that Mr. Britt copied from his IR pack 🤣


    As said, people also praise profiles from RE not aware, that the profiler just used IR.


    Or really like the "custom shop" Choptones packs including direct amp pofiles and IR.


    One rig I play sounds EXACTLY like a 74 Marshall miked with super good mics. It's not improvable, it sounds exactly like it does through a pre rola greenback cab.

    I believe that you love the sound. But how do you know that it sounds exactly like the real deal? You just imagine? Or do you have the exact cab, speakers, mic, ... to compare? You have not!


    And NO mic or mic combination is capturing the amp in the room tone. So it is physically impossible to get "exactly" the sound of a pre rola or something. You are drastically shaping and eq'ing the tone with every inch of a mic movement, choice of preamp, outboard gear....


    And every profile can be "improved" to fit better to a specific mix or work best in a given context.


    When I bought the Kemper I did so because it was quick and easy.

    When you buy or use a Kemper rig with an IR in cab section, it is just as quick and easy. You will not even notice, when it is not tagged as IR by the maker.


    Locking a cab you like and using it with other profiles is the same - doesn't matter if it was an IR or Kemper cab. It's as easy. And what sounds good, sounds good.

  • I wonder now, what if you(we) did a DI profile of let's say, a pedal into an amp and then out the speaker output into a di box, and then did a profile of the effects return, cab and mic, then took that profiles cab and merged it with the DI Profile?

  • I believe that you love the sound. But how do you know that it sounds exactly like the real deal? You just imagine? Or do you have the exact cab, speakers, mic, ... to compare? You have not!

    My friend has a 74 Marshall and pre rola greenback cab I was able to borrow for a few months through my Audix I5, his Neuman U87 & My Neve 1073 Preamp with a Chandler TG-1. I use a neutral speaker and have spent months tweeking it and the reverb so that when recorded sounds like the amp in the room. Hours have been spent going back and forth from the spot in the room where I liked the sound to the recording monitors getting it right. Once I figured out what cab and reverb to use , duplicating the room with other profiles became easier. When I record guitar using that profile, it sounds just like the miked version with room sound.

  • You're probably correct, but even a pair of FRFR speakers isn't going to guarantee that the audience is getting what you hear on stage. In fact I don't think anything can do that. There are so many factors involved. Being on stage in your perfect dialed in comfort zone and out front will always be drastically different and give you aural vertigo. I just strive to get as close as I can and let the sound engineer do his job. People will let me know if it sucks.

    Yeah, that makes sense. It's worth mentioning that I also believe in the Easter Bunny, so chasing the grand unified theory of stage / PA convergence isn't terribly surprising.

  • Yeah, that makes sense. It's worth mentioning that I also believe in the Easter Bunny, so chasing the grand unified theory of stage / PA convergence isn't terribly surprising.

    I used to like to run around in the crowd and jump on chairs, tables to do solos but it always messed my head up about the sound and the delay would get me off time with the band. Now I never like to move off the comfort of my stage sound unless I'm at soundcheck testing cabs or something.