Kemper please get rid of "crowd rating" in Rig Exchange!!

  • Today I was really enjoying some of those 1 star rated profiles in Rig Exchange8) ... and again noticed how annoying this "crowd rating" is.


    It has ABSOLUTELY ZERO value. Really.


    This has nothing to do with "different taste" or something. People with no clue about gear and sound and trolls seem to downvote anything what they don't like.


    What's going on in their head?? Most of the ratings are only a bad joke or the people don't get the idea of profiling. What are they thinking?


    Like: "I wanna play some mellow jazz" clicks on a Metal profile "meh this sounds bad, I give it 1 star".


    Or: "I don't like modern metal, I give everything tight sounding and mix-ready profiles for 7 string guitars 1 star!"


    Or clicks on an absolutely authentic profile of a small combo amp and thinks: "This sounds way to boxy, I want the sound of 4x12 - I give it 2 stars for sounding so small".


    So the crowd rating does not picture any kind of "quality" or help user find good profiles. Of course there are profiles that are obviously "faulty" (phase issues, really really bad miking, ...) - but these are often not 1 star, but 4 star rigs that no serious musician will ever use in any context ^^

    But it's o.k. that 2 or 3 people in the world like them and have fun. But it is not o.k. when people downvote good stuff because they have no clue or have an agenda.


    Now looking in RE, you simply don't know if a 1 star rated profile is an authentic rig that absolutely nails the tone of a specific amp and cuts through the mix until you tried it. Could be, the person who voted with 1 star simply doesn't know how a good profile of this amp, cab, mic...sounds. Or is a beginner expecting "amp in the room" tone or only likes scooped Metal tone...


    Please Kemper think about removing the crowd rating. It makes no sense at all.


    Or only allow "likes", so we can see what many people think is good. But crazy people downvoting good rigs just sucks.

  • totally agree, the crowd rating system is useless. I actually hide that column by default.

    That's an option - just hide it.


    But I know several (commercial) profilers who stopped sharing on RE because of that. They shared obviously great stuff to the crowd, that was professionally captured with pro gear, but some ignorant people downvoted it. Could be competitors too. That really sucks.

    No one needs this kind of "crowd rating."

  • I agree that the rating is unfortunately doubtful and probably not achieving what it was meant for. Personally I had similar experience as Ibot39 but was not really surprised at all. A system with "likes" could be indeed better. If any system needed at all.

  • I LIKE the Crowd Ratings. If nothing else, they give me a sense that I'm sharing an experience with other Profiler owners. For people who consume ratings of anything, (restaurants, bars, products) I hope we are all sophisticated enough (now) to apply our critical thinking filters. For some, that can be "hide the column that displays the ratings". For others, it can be just fun to consider while cruising through options.


    Please keep the Crowd Rating but add some guidelines about how to use it. Maybe have a window pop up when you enter a rating showing the guidelines.


    OR

    Show Likes and Dislikes separately.


    We can't change the past, but going forward I'd like to think that someone who is willing to provide a rating will appreciate the desire to be consistent.

  • I don't really get the point.

    If you're not interested in the crowd ratings, just ignore and hide it.

    The "point" is: The crowd rating has many negative effects and ignoring does not solve it!

    Plus it does NOT achieve what it was meant for.


    It is discouraging people to upload their profiles! And this really sucks! Especially profilers that put a lot of work in creating perfectly usable rigs and share it for free feel completey fooled by getting downvoted. So they stop sharing and delete their files.


    Another negative effect is, that people stop uploading multiple profiles of different amp settings or various miking options, because such efforts (showing all the variety of the gear) will often lead to irrational downvotings.


    And also beginners or people who just want to share their fun experiments get "punished".


    I am not a fan of 1 star rating in general. Why devalue the effort of anyone who is uploading his profiles? That's a point that I don't get. And it should not be possible!


    ST If someone wants to share experience with other profile owners, the Rig Echange is the least suitable thing I can think of. Only very few use it (and some of the few are obvious ignorant people). We have the Kemper forum for this and can really interact there.


    Downvoting with 1 star (especially on authentic profiles/good work) is just stupid and pissing on peoples work. There was the rumour that some of that was also done by competitors and trolls.

  • If you want a more accurate crowd rating, start rating the rig you've previewed.

    It's not fair to downvote profiles that don't fit my style or taste. I don't do that. It also will not give a more "accurate" rating, when some people like me now only give 5 star votes, when the system still offers negative votes. You don't have to be a statistician to notice that. The crowd rating in this form just has no value and - as said - is discriminating and discouraging people from uploading.

  • About "accurate crowd rating". I see a rig with 3,3 rating. What does this mean? People think this is a "mediocre" profile?


    What if the rating was 10 x 5 star, 6 x 2 star, 4x 1 star. So 50 % thought it is a killer rig for classic hard rock with nice mids. The other 50 % thinks the profile totally sucks, because they expected a metal tone or something else with less mids. No one thought it it was a mediocre profile!! Some loved it, some hated it. So the 3,3 star rating has zero value!


    I described that I really liked some 1 star rigs, like the latest hetfield garage inc. profile in RE. So when @G String suggest that I should participate voting with 4 or 5 star, we have exactly what is described above.

  • It's not fair to downvote profiles that don't fit my style or taste. I don't do that. It also will not give a more "accurate" rating, when some people like me now only give 5 star votes, when the system still offers negative votes. You don't have to be a statistician to notice that. The crowd rating in this form just has no value and - as said - is discriminating and discouraging people from uploading.

    if somebody decides to place strategic vote, we won't hold you back. at the same time, we will not remove the entire crowd voting because you think it's not fair.

    we talk about free rigs here. if you don't trust the crowd rating, ignore it and just browse rigs. it's not like you're spending money based on a rating which is off.

  • if somebody decides to place strategic vote, we won't hold you back. at the same time, we will not remove the entire crowd voting because you think it's not fair.

    we talk about free rigs here. if you don't trust the crowd rating, ignore it and just browse rigs. it's not like you're spending money based on a rating which is off.

    Why would you support a rating that discourages some people to upload rigs? There is an easy solution by changing it to "likes". So we can see what profiles really are popular much better.


    And it is NOT just me. Many don't need crowd rating and those who love the idea will be pleased with "likes only". Who is satisfied with the current system? The trolls downvoting?

    I am waiting for the post of someone that explains here, what benefit respectless rating with 1 star has.

  • please point me to where both manufacturers and other voiced that they stopped uploading caused by the star rating.

    This is Kindergarten. I have to proof what is common opinion with ALL sellers I know?! EVERY seller will tell you that it sucks big time. The current crowd rating is outdated since years and in this form has no benefit in such a giant rig collection at all. Everyone knows it, but I have to proof it?


    I don't start searching now, but there have been posts where sellers said something like "which dumb ass has again voted with 1 star" after sharing professional rigs in RE. Then stopped sharing there. That's why many believe also competitors / trolls are voting. "Strategic vote" as you call it.


    Look at the free profiles section. And when people ask why the profiler is not sharing in RE too, the answer is: voting system.


    I remember the topic popping up since years. Wasn't for example Bommel also having started a similar thread showing how demotivating the rating is for profilers?


    But what really matters is the fact, that the current rating is absolutely useless as a guide through thousands of rigs. I can not even see how many people voted 1 star, 2 star, 3 star ... this is just the most ridicilous thing ever.


    RE with it free rigs was/is one of the keys for the Kemper success! Why not improve it also in this aspect. Can you tell me ANY benefit of the rating how it is?

  • That's an option - just hide it.


    But I know several (commercial) profilers who stopped sharing on RE because of that. They shared obviously great stuff to the crowd, that was professionally captured with pro gear, but some ignorant people downvoted it. Could be competitors too. That really sucks.

    No one needs this kind of "crowd rating."

    That they shared "obviously great stuff" is not always true as well. I've purchased plenty of rig packs mostly packed with rigs I find unpleasant and useless.

  • Ibot39 I see what you mean but after many years I hardly even look at it and when I do I think of it in terms of "likes" like you suggested instead of a rating system like a movie on rotten tomatoes lol. If I see one star that to me that means at least 1 like, it means to me in my head someone(s) cared enough to go through the annoying process of clicking buttons to give an A for effort. If it was a true +/- rating system then we could give rigs a negative (-5) star rating. If I see 5 stars it means probably a lot of people liked it a whole whole lot like heart and care reacts. I mean they are stars and not a thumbs up or thumbs down. 1 star is still 1 more star than the ones that have Zero. Yes, I understand it's an average, but I choose to look at it this way because I Know the rating doesn't mean there is a bad rig. It would just suggest to me that maybe there is a better one of that setup. If I wanted a Mesa with an Orange cab and there was a 100 profiles I might just grab the top 10 but I might also go by newest to date. Who wants old profiles? Me, sometimes and other times not. Sometimes I purposely choose a low rating because I wanna see how bad or good it really is because I Know the rating is irrelevant to my taste till I try it.


    Sure, I can say I've downloaded a Mesa profile that had 5 stars over others but I've also downloaded plenty of profiles that had 2, 3, or ZERO stars too. Anywho, just my $1.05

  • I think a "Thumbs UP" counter would be just better. I mean it is at least not possible to rate with 1 star just because you do not like somebody or other reasons. I mean i totally understand that some rigs are better and some worse and giving users some orientation which profiles are good is important. But still here would be a thumbs up counter simply fair.


    The reason i dislike the star rating, is not that i cried in the shower because somebody gave me less than 5 stars :D it is simply not fair. I know from another older user that disliked my profiles because they are D.I. and uploaded without a cabinet. Sometimes the combination of amp setting to a particular guitar simply does not fit well but that does not make the profile bad, and this leads a user maybe away from a perfectly fine profile and the most discouraging thing where the one star ratings on the match eq profiles... a lot of work went into them to get as close as possible to the tone of famous bands. I posted them and also the proof soundfiles that they are really pretty close ...



    and then this, i decided there that it was not worth it... getting so close for one star, i offer d.i. profiles, so the pure amp sound and still getting 1 star for that much of work. Sitting weeks down with the helix and axe fx to get all amps on the kemper for no or 1 star ... it is just not motivating, profiling is so much fun but the sharing aspect idk ...

  • I guess the 1 star out of 5 is universal bad but it's still a Star! Lol we used have this joke in my old band when someone was suckin or being wack they got a "green sticker" ( the use them on cars to be towed on the interstate here) and if someone was doing good they got a "Gold Star".