Problem with Double Tracker

  • The panorama control is a good workaround and surely you don't use DT on all the patches? I would have thought the main rhythm sound is the point of it.


    An option to boost the effect side of the DT by a couple of db would be a good addition by the sound of things though.

  • You can use a mixer. When playing at gig volumes then the volume difference should not be that noticeable to the audience especially in the mix of a band. But I would prefer that the volumes are equal if that can be possible. I am not defending the way DT's work now but I know how to compensate for it.

    dont want and don’t have time to use a mixer live lol.
    I play show with 10kwatts to 20 kwatts and a little difference can be really noticeable.
    but it’s a solution.

  • The panorama control is a good workaround and surely you don't use DT on all the patches? I would have thought the main rhythm sound is the point of it.


    An option to boost the effect side of the DT by a couple of db would be a good addition by the sound of things though.

    I agree it could be a great solution, but a solution to solve a problem that must be fixed…

  • I'm pretty sure it's psychological. Our ears are notorious for playing tricks on our brains and this is just another example.


    On my system the L side sounds very slightly louder most of the time but the R side jumps out from time to time. This makes it sound like 2 actual guitars rather than a simple delay on the same track. However, if you stick a meter on the channel you will see that peak levels are pretty much identical. I reset the meter several times and the peak reading was the same most of the time. On a few occasions the L channel was 0.1db louder while other times the R channel was 0.1db louder (basically the same level). When taking an RMS reading the two channels averaged out at the the same level.


    The perceived level difference that some folk experience may be an EQ thing but I suspect it is a delay issue. If you play single short hits the side which we hear first always sounds loudest. However, if we play chords or notes which ring enough to overlap the delay the two sides appear even in volume as we no longer have the psycho acoustic trick of the earlier sound appearing loudest.

  • On my system the L side sounds very slightly louder most of the time but the R side jumps out from time to time.

    I believe that is the normal state of how the kemper projects stereo. More high end on the left than the right plus the slight delay of the right channel over the left. So the DT magnifies that. If you heard that high end on both channels then it would simply be dual mono. But I do understand why people are aggravated by the volume drop. However, if you were to play at gig volumes where the low end (right channel) got pushed then it may equal out some. Something I would like to experiment on.


    Another trick to compensate when live is to just EQ up the high frequency on the right channel with either the PA's onboard EQ or a EQ pedal on the main out R.

    The more you find what Kemper can do then the harder you try to find what it cannot do -- like make a good cup of Frappuccino.

  • I'm pretty sure it's psychological. Our ears are notorious for playing tricks on our brains and this is just another example.

    Wherever the sound comes from first will always sound louder, just like the Delay Widener. That is how we detect where as sound comes from.


    The DT effect It must start as the Delay Widener and then manipulate delay time and pitch over the right channel. Either being able to boost volume or brightness might help, but there is always some compromise and I think Kemper have done wonders with another free update! The TC Mimiq is no better.

  • That's what I do.

    BUT:

    It doesn't matter if live or studio.

    Drop outs or a changing from left to right and back are a NO GO.

    Hopefully the issue can be fixed, but live sound is anything but perfect usually. It might be an accepted trade off when you can make such a big sound.

  • Hopefully the issue can be fixed, but live sound is anything but perfect usually. It might be an accepted trade off when you can make such a big sound.

    This. I have been to tiny events and to large million dollar events, and an unperfect sound is what they have in common. Add to that, where you sit in the audience. But I would lean towards the smaller the venue then the better the sound.

    The more you find what Kemper can do then the harder you try to find what it cannot do -- like make a good cup of Frappuccino.

  • This. I have been to tiny events and to large million dollar events, and an unperfect sound is what they have in common. Add to that, where you sit in the audience. But I would lean towards the smaller the venue then the better the sound.

    In the days you could tour Europe (pre-pandemic/Brexit), it was always a lottery with venues. You are at the mercy of the acoustics in a venue, badly maintained PAs with phase issues and occasionally grumpy local crew.


    The best sound is generally in mid-sized theatres, or open air festivals from my experience.

  • So I tested it after all the updates and like others have said before, it a no go for me in live situation.


    Random drops In volume are not a good behavior, for me it’s still in beta…


    Great for just home use to get a fuller sound and have fun but that’s it.

  • Please post your recordings of volume drops using the DT. I can't duplicate it, and have been using DT's almost exclusively.

    The more you find what Kemper can do then the harder you try to find what it cannot do -- like make a good cup of Frappuccino.

  • Please post your recordings of volume drops using the DT. I can't duplicate it, and have been using DT's almost exclusively.

    nevermind the 2 first samples, DT is on the 3 and 4 sample.
    It was just a recording to work on my profile.


    You can clearly hear random phase or volume drop.
    i know I can sound a little picky but I sometimes play with a 10k to 20kilowatt sound systems and that is not acceptable for my use.




    ps: what do you think of the tone btw? Lol

  • The second part of the riff was much more noticeable. I heard the phasing like about 5-6 times. Are you using the Space function in the Output? I have mine set on 10.0.

    The more you find what Kemper can do then the harder you try to find what it cannot do -- like make a good cup of Frappuccino.

  • That's what I do.

    BUT:

    It doesn't matter if live or studio.

    Drop outs or a changing from left to right and back are a NO GO.


    I've tested it quite a bit, what are the settings you are using? I found that not moving too far from the default settings helps, but I also have messed with the presets and found them usable.


    It just seems strange after Kemper Amps said the problem was resolved. I guess they need to investigate further.


    Also, How are you using it live? Into two cabs spread apart? On your PA, have you panned hard left and right?

  • I've tested it quite a bit, what are the settings you are using? I found that not moving too far from the default settings helps, but I also have messed with the presets and found them usable.


    It just seems strange after Kemper Amps said the problem was resolved. I guess they need to investigate further.


    Also, How are you using it live? Into two cabs spread apart? On your PA, have you panned hard left and right?

    I use it live via PA, panned left and right.