Distortion GRAIN control parameter

    hi guys,


    since i'm a hi-gain lover, i'd like to propose a feature that could allow for tweaking the distortion in hi-gain patches:


    [bGRAIN:[/b]
    Since everybody has their own understanding of terminology when it comes to amps/tone, i'd like elaborate a bit on this.
    Distortion 'grain' describes an inherent characteristic of distortion, namely what most refer to as 'smooth' vs 'gritty/grainy'. I like to think about it as the 'density' of distortion. Take for example a crunchy and dry sounding 800 marshall vs a smooth and dense boogie. This is exactly what i mean by 'grain'. In higher gain applications, smooth sounds (think ENGL) tend to make leads more effortless but also compromise 'crunch' at the same time. In contrast, if you take a 5150 or recto in modern/diode mode, there's also plenty of distortion, but with a more grainy and raw character.


    the reason i propose this is because i find it difficult to tweak hi-gain patches in combination with low tunings with the advanced amp settings. when increasing clarity, you can feel weird intermodulation of lower frequencies. almost like cross-over distortion. when increasing definiton, it tightens up the sound but also adds a 'cocked wah' character (remember the old boss COSM?). What i would be looking for in particular would be a way to tighten up a higain profile, while also counteracting the ’cocked wah sound' by adding more 'grain' to the distortion. Even when you start with a 'grainy' amp (for example a 5150), the sound tends to become smoother and bouncier with lower notes.
    i'm not knocking on the kemper, since i've been able to get great higain sounds from some profiles. i'm just saying that the two controls i mentioned, are not optimal for tweaking a higain sound, while they work incredibly well for clean and crunch sounds.


    disclaimer: i'm 28 years old and have been playing prog-metal for the past 14 years. i've been experimenting with 7-strings and incorporating lower tunings for the past 10 years or so, and that's when my hunt for the holy grail of tone began. i'm not a scene kid trying to 'djent' with his kemper, nor a drop-tuning powerchord chugger, which is often associated with metal players. although i do love elements of both this kinds of playing.

    Some men refer to this as "sizzle" and I know exactly what you mean, it would be nice to be able to turn a smooth sounding high gain amplifier profile into a sizzly sounding high gain amplifier or vice versa. However, I'm not sure this could me done without a male profiling the exact amplifier he wants in the first place.

    Quote from guitarnet70

    Actually that is what the Definition and Clarity parameters do....


    not exactly, definition sounds like rolling off bass at early gain stages. clarity somehow focuses the sound more towards the midrange frequencies. like i mentioned in the original post, clarity doesn't really work well with higain profiles since it adds a weird modulation to distortion of lower frequencies.


    again, these parameters work GREAT with crunch/clean profiles. just not optimal for higain, imo.

    Knowing that the KPA creates distortion in itself, this shouldn't be too hard to do, and it would be extremely useful and nice to have.

    Use your ears, not your mathematical sense.

    Quote from mikeb

    You just basically asked for a Marshall to Mesa type control. I just said USE the Marshall or Mesa profile. See my point?


    it's not that simple, unfortunately.


    for a metal player it's hard to tell the difference between various bluesy, country and jazzy tones, as well as to distinguish the qualities of different amps targeted towards these tones. it's also the other way around for blues/rock/country player. all higain amps sound the same; there's marshall and there's boogie. the truth is that there are as much nuances when it comes to tone with higain amps as with crunch and clean sounds. tweaking an amp to sound right on lower tunings without thinning out is also a completely different challenge.

    See now, the issue I see is that even with your description, it's still not a very technical one and it's open to interpretation based on what you hear in the amps you mention. And that's why I'd really like to see a profile blending option or control that would allow you to blend between profiles (and even save the result as a new one), that way you could take a mesa and a Marshall and mix between them, or even blend below 0% and above 100% to go beyond where the original profiles left off. This would allow users to make their own "Grain Control" or any other trait control by blending and mixing profiles with the characteristics they wanted till they go the sound they were after.


    It's just a case that I don't see any other way of doing this, because it's pretty unlikely (although not impossible) that Christoph has a "Distortion Grain" control within his algorithm. With profile or even separate amp/cab blending you'd be able to do what you want and os would anyone else that wants to make things a little more like this amp or a little less like that amp.

    I like this idea and agree about Definition. I would suggest using pre-EQ instead of Definition - much more control. Pre-EQ can affect the "grain". But ultimately it sounds like you are talking about the amount of distortion vs the amount of compression. To me, it sounds like this is exactly what Clarity is doing. Not sure about the low-end side effects that you were deterred by.


    So perhaps what you are really asking for is an improved Clarity control?