Kemper Stage VS Fractal FM9

  • I have had my Kemper Stage for right at a year now. I am super happy with how the profiles sound and am going to be moving on some of my actual tube amps due to how good the stage sounds. I got on the FM9 waitlist because I saw that it looked like I could run my piezo pickup in a separate signal chain and run that and my magnetic pickups through the same unit in separate paths. I have been doing this with two different solutions and would like being able to do it all in one floor board units.


    I received my Fractal FM9 on Thursday last week. I spend A couple of evenings with it and then a good chunk of time on Saturday. I was able to get it setup with the two signal chains that I wanted. However, when I tried to put everything in it that I have been running with two separate solutions I maximized the processor, not good. Here are some thoughts on the comparison of the two units now that I have spent some time with both of them.


    Fractal FM9

    • The piezo signal chain that I created sounded good. I was using a Fishman Aura to do this before. I found some free acoustic IRs and put some in the unit. These made a big difference in the sound.
    • I can have the two separate signal chains with separate ins and outs. On the downside, I can't put everything in the preset that I want at one time. I will have to think through this a bit and put only what I think I will need and create other presets for other purposes. The one thing that comes to mind is that I don't use a wah all that often. I will have to create a prest that has a wah in it and drop some other things out to free up some processor for it.
    • I was not too wild about the sounds of the presets in the FM9. To my for the tones I like the presets had too much of everything in them, gain and effects. It seemed to me like they were really catering to the high gain player.


    Kemper Stage

    • The amps sound and feel better in the stage than they do in the FM9 to me. I went right from the FM9 to the stage using the same mixer and speaker and immediately liked the tone and feel much better. They are much more touch sensitive than what they are in the FM9. The amp in the stage acted much more like my real amp and pedals when rolling back on the volume. I have to roll the volume back much farther on the FM9 to get it to start reducing the gain. It was nowhere near as responsive as my amps or the Kemper.
    • You never have to worry about running the Kemper out of processor from my experience. I can put something in every slot on the Kemper and I can turn them all on at the same time and it just works. You have to pay attention to the processor utilization on the FM9 if you get a lot in the preset to make sure you do not get too high on the processor utilization. If you do, bad things happen.
    • I think the presets sound better and have a better feel in the Kemper.


    I am going to keep the FM9 and will figure out how to get it to do what I need it to do. I see these units as two different ways to play, sort of like deciding to take a different amp or pedal board out to the gig that night. I may stop by and add thoughts to this as I dig deeper into the unit. One thing is for sure, it will not cause me to sell my stage. My Kemper has a permanent home. I haven't found anything that gives me the tones and feel of my real tube amps like the Kemper does.


    EDIT: Adding this comment from another post of mine below.

    One thing that I don't think I mentioned is that I was using profiles of a Dirty Shirley amp in the Kemper and models of that same amp in the FM9. I also have a Twin Sister amp so my comparison points should all be pretty equal.

  • I got on the FM9 waitlist because I saw that it looked like I could run my piezo pickup in a separate signal chain and run that and my magnetic pickups through the same unit in separate paths. I have been doing this with two different solutions and would like being able to do it all in one floor board units.

    That would be a game changer for me too. At the moment I run my Parker Fly and PRS P22 with one output going to the front of my Toaster for the magnetic pickups and another output going to the return input as the Return of an FX Loop in Stomp A. I then use Parallel Path to send the Piezo through one FX (usually Reverb) in Stomp B. However, this is extremely limited as normally I would want a Compressor, EQ and Rev on the Piezo signal (an acoustic profile would be even better but that isn’t technically possible in the KPA). I have been seriously thinking about adding an Aura or an LR Baggs etc to get round this. However, just being able to use more than 2 Stomps on the Parallel Path and/or blend it back into the main FX chain post stack would let me use the KPA as a stand alone solution.

  • This is the only critical factor for me. ?

    yep, but if We really want to compare it’s just impossible to get the same satisfaction from a piece of gear that you own for a year and a another one that is completely different that you’ve played for two days.

  • I was just being a goof, sorry. I really appreciate the effort you went through to put the review up.


    I think if I played acoustic a lot more on stage I'd consider a Fractal for what I think is some extra flexibility.

  • That would be a game changer for me too. At the moment I run my Parker Fly and PRS P22 with one output going to the front of my Toaster for the magnetic pickups and another output going to the return input as the Return of an FX Loop in Stomp A. I then use Parallel Path to send the Piezo through one FX (usually Reverb) in Stomp B. However, this is extremely limited as normally I would want a Compressor, EQ and Rev on the Piezo signal (an acoustic profile would be even better but that isn’t technically possible in the KPA). I have been seriously thinking about adding an Aura or an LR Baggs etc to get round this. However, just being able to use more than 2 Stomps on the Parallel Path and/or blend it back into the main FX chain post stack would let me use the KPA as a stand alone solution.

    I have a compressor > cabinet with and IR in it > chorus > delay > reverb in the signal chain for the piezo. I had an EQ in there as well but there is enough EQ in the compressor and cabinet that I didn't need it so I took it out to save some processor.


    I used an Aura for a while and liked the sound of it. The compressor in it is very good. What I didn't like is that I wanted to have a little chorus, delay and reverb along with it. I had to run them in the loop of the Aura to get that. It started to get complicated. That drove me to buy the FlyRig Acoustic. The amp section of that does not sound as good as the modeling in the Aura. It has the delay and reverb built into it along with a boost, which was something else I needed for a few things. It worked but didn't sound as good to me. Running the cabinet block with the acoustic IR has brought me back to a sound much closer to the Aura and I have all of the other things I wanted in the chan and all in this one unit that is also running my normal clean and overdriven guitar tones.

  • yep, but if We really want to compare it’s just impossible to get the same satisfaction from a piece of gear that you own for a year and a another one that is completely different that you’ve played for two days.

    To be fair, I have experience with Fractal products. I still have my Axe FX Ultra that I bought in 2010. This new OS was very easy for me to adapt to. I think this comparison is pretty fair. Will I continue to refine the sound of the FM9, absolutely. I will try to get them as close as possible. I was speaking from a standpoint of first firing the two units up and getting the tones of my tube amps as accurately as possible. I honestly didn't have to do much tweaking with the Kemper to get the tones where they were spot on to my tube amps. The fact that I am going to have to put a fair amount of tweaking into the FM9 to get the tones there says something positive for the Kemper in my book.


    One thing that I don't think I mentioned is that I was using profiles of a Dirty Shirley amp in the Kemper and models of that same amp in the FM9. I also have a Twin Sister amp so my comparison points should all be pretty equal.

    I was just being a goof, sorry. I really appreciate the effort you went through to put the review up.


    I think if I played acoustic a lot more on stage I'd consider a Fractal for what I think is some extra flexibility.

    No worries. I was not offended at all. I think the amp tones are the main factor for most all of us.

  • Thanks I’ll look into that as an option. The Kemper with some acoustic profiles from a certain Dutch profiler is fantastic with just the Piezo signal but of you want to combine both piezo and magnetic the current parallel path is definitely a limiting factor.

    I don't see why you couldn't create a piezo only rig in the Kemper. You should be able to do it the same way I did in the FM9. I used some free IRs that I got from a site to get the sound I am getting now. You could probably profile a cable then use an IR in the cabinet slot. It is the parallel path that you wouldn't be able to do. But if you just want a good rig for the piezo you could probably set that up and just switch to a different rig for your other guitar sounds. I wanted the parallel path because I run the acoustic and clean guitar sounds at the same time often.


    This is the site where I pulled the IRs down that I am using.

    http://acousticir.free.fr/spip.php?rubrique2

  • Great review. I think what surprised me most was that you have to monitor processor utilisation...in other words, why would a device allow you add functions that will max out the processor and ultimately fail? Why did they not put respective limits in?

  • Interesting. I thought the FM9 was supposed to be a processing powerhouse.

    Don't get me wrong, it does a lot of things. You can dig really deep into a lot of parameters. It has some really nice features as well like meters for all of the inputs, outputs and blocks so you can see your signal volume at every point in the chain. That to me will be super helpful when trying to level each effect volume or prest volumes.


    All of these digital units have things that are not ideal or could be better. I never expect any one unit to be the end all be all answer for everything. I see a lot of requests in the feature request threads on multiple forums asking for features that other units have. Many times the design of the unit won't allow for that particular feature.


    I still think it is a great unit. I may be able to go deep into the parameters to get it closer to what the Kemper is giving me for the raw amp tone. Time will tell. I don't think it will ever straight up replace my Kemper. I will keep both units.

  • Great review. I think what surprised me most was that you have to monitor processor utilisation...in other words, why would a device allow you add functions that will max out the processor and ultimately fail? Why did they not put respective limits in?

    That is a really good question. This has been a thing with Fractal units since the beginning. They pack so much into them that if you add too many blocks to your signal chain you can run the processor into a high enough usage that it starts doing very strange things. My Axe FX Ultra is the same way. The editor is better at pointing it out to you now than it used to be. You need to keep the utilization around 80% or lower. I have run up to about 82% and it still worked fine. I added one more block to the chain and it told me that was too much.

  • That is a really good question. This has been a thing with Fractal units since the beginning. They pack so much into them that if you add too many blocks to your signal chain you can run the processor into a high enough usage that it starts doing very strange things. My Axe FX Ultra is the same way. The editor is better at pointing it out to you now than it used to be. You need to keep the utilization around 80% or lower. I have run up to about 82% and it still worked fine. I added one more block to the chain and it told me that was too much.

    It partially explains why there is an emphasis on processing power with their products as it not only upps the capability of running more blocks but you are less likely to accidently hit the limits - in other words, if I get paid more in my job, I worry less about going overdrawn in my back account and therefore monitor my account less....

  • yep, but if We really want to compare it’s just impossible to get the same satisfaction from a piece of gear that you own for a year and a another one that is completely different that you’ve played for two days.

    I don't think so, rather the opposite in fact, 'cause everyone gets bored with their "old" devices, NEW is better like says advertising :), you put a lot of hopes in new things..... This is the reason why a lot of us meet crises time of GAS.

    More seriously, i can understand that some can be disapointed when they buy a modeler/profiler cause they come from the traditional and can be lost or dislike the miced feeling.

    But for the others, a new device has to provide the "WAOW effect" not just the "YEP effect" especially for a price range from 1000$ to 2000$ quickly out of the box. Of course, the conception won't be the same, but poeple know how to setup parameters, chains, highcut/lowcut, etc....


    I had a Helix before. I knew it by heart.

    When i ordered the Kemper, i have heard it was better for amps/cabs ; what i was looking for.

    During, the shipment, i've seen comparatives vids and couldn't tell the difference between a fractal VS a Helix VS a Kemper.

    But the day it was home, tried it five minutes and WOW, this is Fu***g good. :love: Couldn't stop playing before half and a hour :evil: (its a sign)

    Of course, i didn't know all the effects, parameters, etc... But that was IT.


    I know now, it's gonna difficult to do better....So i'm gonna keep my Kemper for a long long time ;)

  • I was thinking I might sell my KPA (rack) as I want a more portable digital amp to take on the deck and elsewhere around the house, and maybe even some gigs (although I have not had luck with digital solutions in a live setting, even the KPA)


    The FM9 was my first consideration but it seems to be huge. I think it’s even wider than my KPA rack.


    Maybe an FM3 with a small 3 button midi controller on a small board, but I worry (a little) about processing power.


    Ok Team Kemper…it’s time to release a full KPA that will run on my iPad ;)

  • I was thinking I might sell my KPA (rack) as I want a more portable digital amp to take on the deck and elsewhere around the house, and maybe even some gigs (although I have not had luck with digital solutions in a live setting, even the KPA)


    The FM9 was my first consideration but it seems to be huge. I think it’s even wider than my KPA rack.


    Maybe an FM3 with a small 3 button midi controller on a small board, but I worry (a little) about processing power.


    Ok Team Kemper…it’s time to release a full KPA that will run on my iPad ;)


    The FM9 is wider than a rack. A rack is 19 inches wide and the FM9 is 20.2 inches wide. It is a little wider than the Kemper stage. The FM3 with a FC6 will put you pretty much at the same width as the FM9, probably a little wider due to the end caps on the units. The processor usage will depend on how many effects you want to use as well as how complex you want to get with multiple amps and cabinets and such. I don't run multiple amps or multiple reverbs or delays.


    If an FM3 will suit your needs you actually have 6 switches because each switch has a tap function and a hold function. That still wasn't enough for me and I knew that what I wanted to do with the FM9 was going to push it's processor limit.


    I was able to successfully finish off my preset this weekend and am pretty happy with how it sounds. I ran my guitar into an A/B switch and hooked both the FM9 and the Kemper up to the same mixer and speaker. I tweaked the amp sounds in the FM9 to get it closer to what the Kemper sounds like. It is definitely usable now. I still hear a difference when switching from one to the other back to back. They have a different midrange push to them. Both will do well in a mix but just a different flavor. I also hear a difference in the top end of them. The FM9 amp models have a slightly scooped mid sound to them where the Kemper has maybe a little pushed mid sound to it. The Kemper still sounds more like my apm to my ears. It has a more accurate breakup on the top end.


    I don't dislike either of these units and plan on keeping both of them. I still have a way to run my acoustic sounds through a different pedal and can use that along with the Kemper or I can use the FM9 as a one unit solution, which is why I bought it. Time to unload a bunch of amps.

  • I did this writeup for another thread this weekend. I thought I would add it here as well since it is directly related.


    I am setting here playing with this today. I have my SSS strat plugged into an A/B box then each of the outputs of that going through two identical cables to the Kemper and the FM9. I am using an old Fender American special loaded with custom shop fat 50's pickups in it.


    The profile I am using is the Tone Junkie Dirty Surly, the cleanest one in the pack. The amp sim in the FM9 is the Dirty Shirley 2. I turned the gain to 0 and used the master volume for my output.


    The Kemper TJ profile uses the Friedman DS cabinet which has a Celestion Creamback 65 in it. The IR I am using in the FM9 is G12H Creamback 421. This is a 4x12 cabinet IR so I expected it to be a little thicker.


    At first the Kemper down right embarrassed the FM9 IMHO. The FM9 had such a muddy tone to it. The FM9 just has too much of everything to me and I find myself really cutting everything back to very small numbers to get the tones I like. It took A LOT of adjusting of the amp and cabinet as well as the compressor to get in the same neighborhood as the Kemper. The Kemper still sounds more like the amp. It has that chimey high end to it like the amp does. The FM9 has the high end but it just doesn't have the same dynamic qualities that the Kemper and the amp have. Even after a lot of adjustments it still has this lower mid to it that the amp really doesn't have in this setting. I could probably get it closer by putting an EQ in the chain and dialing it in more. To me, that isn't what this comparison is about. It is about how close the amp sims are to the real thing compared to how the Kemper compares to the real thing.


    The difference in the top end made all the difference in the world with how they sound on the in between tones. The position 2 and 4 tones on my strat are much more pronounced with the Kemper. They are there with the FM9 but sound much more stratty with the Kemper.


    I would gig either one of the tones I have going right now but much prefer the one I have in the Kemper right now. I didn't adjust the amp at all from the original TJ profile. I just cut the effects way back because he uses much heavier effects than what I do. I am getting tones I like from the FM9. I just have to dial EVERYTHING way back in it to get there. It takes a lot of adjusting and testing to get it where I want it to be.


    My honest opinion is that the amps sims in the FM9 are not all that close to the amps, at least the ones I have tested that I have the real amp setting here to compare to, I have a few of them. This isn't a huge deal though. I have been able to adjust them into something I can get along with. I would ignore the name of the amp they are modeling and use your ears to find one that is close to what you want and adjust from there.


    I think the FM9 may satisfy a higher gain metal player more than the clean / low / medium gain players. I think the Kemper will be the unit for the guys that don't like the endless tweaking and prefer something that has a signal chain closer to using a tube amp and pedals. To me, the Kemper does a better job at providing the actual tone and dynamics that the real amps give you.


    The bottom line for me is that I will keep both of these units because I am able to do that. They each offer me something slightly different that I can use. I will factor in that I have to make a lot more adjustments in the FM9 to get the tones I am looking for. I don't mind doing that. If I am doing a gig where I need my piezo equipped guitar, I will take the FM9. If I do not need the Piezo, I will take the Kemper.