Kemper Mini (Revisited)

  • Ok, before anyone lets me know that there have been many threads on this, I realize it, and have a good reason for the new request.


    Considering the most recent paths on the Kemper roadmap, especially the inclusion of a tablet remote capability to run RM on, I am revising my product request as follows:


    1. Kemper MINI with approximate footprint of the Kemper FC .... maybe a bit smaller. If smaller, the buttons that should be removed are 1 bottom row tap tempo and1 middle row efx preset modifier. Other than this, NO other controls on the Mini FC. It would be ideal if the product could be made small enough to fit in a good sized back pack (say no more than 12" long). The size is critical since this is the biggest selling feature IMO other than the price point.
    2. WiFi integrated as the stage is with integration to the tablet app. This would be the only method of editing (or the PC through a wired USB connection)
    3. Pricing at 1K USD or there about.

    Such a product would easily fit into the current firmware architecture and work with the entire ecosystem of the KPA line IMO.


    Thoughts?

  • Nice idea if you just ask for a "profile player" to use with external gear. But this is not exactly what you mean, I guess. I run into issues and limitations with this Kemper generation, regularly (if you need examples, just ask). So I, personally, think it is really the best to put any kind of effort and research into a new generation now and leave this generation as it is for people who need just this - as it is. But this, of course is only MHO.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • I think I get it, it's a Kemper Stomp XL with an additional 2 button fooswitch. Now that I think about it. Maybe that should the layout. A way to plug a series of about five to six, 2 Button footswitches and Expression pedals .

  • The Kemper stage is perfect if you have enough space on the stage. Most time we don‘t have it. That’s the reason I am still using my toaster. Would definitely buy a kemper mini. A second guitar input would be also great.

  • Nice idea if you just ask for a "profile player" to use with external gear. But this is not exactly what you mean, I guess. I run into issues and limitations with this Kemper generation, regularly (if you need examples, just ask). So I, personally, think it is really the best to put any kind of effort and research into a new generation now and leave this generation as it is for people who need just this - as it is. But this, of course is only MHO.

    I hear you; however, the issue that Kemper has as a company, and customers have in the community, is that there is a hole in the Kemper product line.


    Here is my market synopsis:


    1. High end gigging musicians. Needs are profiling expensive tube amp rigs, very functional on-stage layout. Money is not much of a concern for a tool of the trade (Toaster/Rack with FC) (Fairly small market size. <10%)
    2. Mid end gigging musicians. Similar needs to 1, but desire a smaller, lighter, one-piece setup. Budget is NOT unlimited, but are willing to spend 1-2K for their guitar rig. (Stage) (Bigger market. ~10-30%)
    3. Lower end gigging musicians. Stage space is severely limited. Budget is very constrained. (Kemper Mini) (Much bigger market 30-60%).
    4. Bottom of the bucket (cheap plastic crap. Not Kemper's market)


    Now, it may be true that Kemper is not even interested in the lower market ($700-$1000), but Line 6 Helix LT is a great example of what I am talking about.


    Note also that what I am talking about would take minimal engineering resources since it re-uses all of the current IP to accomplish the new product (it's called recombinant engineering).


    A brand new version of the KPA would require a completely new code base. Furthermore, it would be required to have equal AND more functionality than the current product line or it would fall to the inevitable "the last version could do it" syndrome that plagues every engineer on the planet ;).


    I am not saying that Kemper doesn't need to invest in a new version. I just believe that from a business perspective, their best move would be to fill their product hole.

  • ... also, many existing customers of any version of the KPA would flock to buy one of these as a backup, or a "throw-and-go" solution for less serious work or crowded stage situations.


    This provides an instant market for the new product.


    FYI, I believe that Kemper's biggest issue would be that this product would likely sell at a 10:1 ratio over their current product line. I am not certain their manufacturing and testing, and distribution processes are setup for such a high volume product line. Further, with the chip shortage, it may also be a bigger issue.

  • Also, I just noticed that Line 6 has a Helix HX (tiny thing with only 3 buttons, 3 knobs, and a touch screen) for $600. It has MIDI so it could take input from a FC for more complete control as well.


    Interesting how the floor controller world has matured in the last 5 years.

  • "Recombinant engineering"? I say REDUNDANT engineering. That's what the Helix LT and their iterations of the same thing in various format are. Going for such a marginally smaller footprint than the stage is useless in the studio and it would be annoying as hell to gig with a footboard whose switches are 1 inches apart from each others. I get that miniaturization of everything is appealing to engineers but this thing is not meant to be a tiny toy to fiddle with, it's pro gear that needs to withstand abuse and be large enough to be stepped on and be functional.


    Also, if the stage of the venue is too small to fit a Kemper stage... you probably don't need to be gigging with a Kemper stage.

  • Also, if the stage of the venue is too small to fit a Kemper stage... you probably don't need to be gigging with a Kemper stage.

    I agree with most of your post Jed except the assumption that just because people are playing small stages they don't need a Kemper Stage. Some of the hardest working players I know work in function/wedding bands and play around 4 or 5 nights a week. These types of gigs often expect excellent very varied sound (the kind of thing the Kemper does brilliantly) but they also provide some of the most woefully inadequate stages on the planet.

  • "Recombinant engineering"? I say REDUNDANT engineering. That's what the Helix LT and their iterations of the same thing in various format are. Going for such a marginally smaller footprint than the stage is useless in the studio and it would be annoying as hell to gig with a footboard whose switches are 1 inches apart from each others. I get that miniaturization of everything is appealing to engineers but this thing is not meant to be a tiny toy to fiddle with, it's pro gear that needs to withstand abuse and be large enough to be stepped on and be functional.


    Also, if the stage of the venue is too small to fit a Kemper stage... you probably don't need to be gigging with a Kemper stage.

    If there wasn't a market for a smaller, less functional foot all-in-one higher end guitar processor, Line 6 and Fractal wouldn't be making them.


    I appreciate that you (and me too by the way) wouldn't want to compromise the ergonomics of the button layout and control of the Kemper ecosystem.


    Personally, I wouldn't want EVEN the stage. Too many wires and crap around my stage area. My KPA rack and FC gives me a SINGLE cable to route out to my performance position keeping my stage setup as clean as possible. So for ME, no all-in-one foot controller would work. I demand the ultimate setup with a KPA rack in a flight case with a well laid out rear custom back panel where I connect directly to the mixer and have a modified KPA foot controller cable with ethercon connections on BOTH sides that I plug into my custom back panel. Of course, the cost of entry for this rig is around $2600 (including FC, case, and custom panel). Pretty far North of the market we are talking about here (sub 1K).


    So you see, I agree with you in my personal gig rig.


    Now .... the question isn't if you or I would buy a Kemper Mini. The question is how many other people would?


    There are a metric ton of those crappy sounding Boss all-in-ones running around out there in the wild (runs around $300). I can't imagine that any sane guitar player wouldn't rather have the $600.00 Helix HX over that crap. And a Kemper mini at under 1K would likely be a raging sales success IMO (since any sane guitar player would rather have a Kemper than a Helix IMO).


    Now, the said sales rage would likely not include me or you ;).

  • If there wasn't a market for a smaller, less functional foot all-in-one higher end guitar processor, Line 6 and Fractal wouldn't be making them.

    I am not that great of a guitarist. But I love playing. I never even looked at a Kemper because it was priced way too high for me. I dont play out so I cant see spending $1800 for a Kemper. I set an arbitrary limit of $500 for a modeller.


    One day I was watching Herman Li stream on Twitch and he had a Kemper and it sounded amazing. My wife said why dont you get one of those. I said because its like 3X what I want to pay. She said just get it. If it was not for her pushing me I would not have a Kemper.


    The point is having something closer to $600-$1000 would definitely get some attention. If it was $800 I would have bought one several years ago.

    And I would probably have 2 or 3 now. Because after getting the first one I would want a second to profile my edited profiles. And a 3rd for playing in other places in the house.


    So hearing Herman Li and seeing the Helix come out at $1500 actually made the Kemper sale. So you can thank Line6 for the sale ^^ If the Helix was $500 I would probably have that instead.


    But what can you take off the large Kemper to make it cost less? It kind of needs everything it has.

  • One day I was watching Herman Li stream on Twitch and he had a Kemper and it sounded amazing. My wife said why dont you get one of those. ...


    But what can you take off the large Kemper to make it cost less? It kind of needs everything it has.

    One thing we can/should always expect from a Mini Kemper is the sound quality.
    That is the most important thing for me and for many others
    (regardless of whether it is played on a large or small stage ;) )


    Of course, any further reduction in size means compromises.
    But I don't need 14 step buttons like on the remote.

    Fractal FM3, for example, has a very clever concept of foot switch assignments (toggle function, layers)

    FM3 has been given a very nice color display too, which certainly makes the device expensive.

    So maybe there could be two variants of a kemper mini, with and without a display.

    The one without a display could then only be configured using a smartphone or tablet und should be cheaper.

    Just dreaming...

  • Best thing would be to somehow just put that little mini Kemper Stomp thing into a damn Helix to use as an amp block.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • The Kemper stage is perfect if you have enough space on the stage. Most time we don‘t have it. That’s the reason I am still using my toaster. Would definitely buy a kemper mini. A second guitar input would be also great.

    This. I love the idea of a stage especially on silent stages. However. I frequently have more space available at the back of the stage rather than the front, which is why I have stuck with a power rack and remote setup

  • I really don't play arenas, I wish I would. But a stage that has not enough space for the Kemper Stage is something I never experienced and cannot imagine. I would love a Mini Kemper for different reasons.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio