Kemper Mini (Revisited)

  • Price point and size. I believe that is the winning combo.


    As for what do you remove? Well, you have to give up something to make it smaller. My suggestions were to get rid of one of the 4 efx toggle buttons, move the tap tempo up to the top and shrink the FC form factor down by 4" making it around 12" long, and the same height as today's FC.


    Only WiFi editing.


    I totally agree with others that the engine needs to be completely left in tact. No sonic downgrade for sure.


    I am even suggesting that the full 5 performance slots be accessible from the controller as well as the up down performance buttons, just none of the stages controller features. Those would all be done from a tablet.


    So what you cut is lots of buttons and knobs and a couple foot switches.


    $1000 seems like a pretty good target price for me.


    Kemper rack or toaster with FC ~$2400

    Kemper Stage $1700 (41%)

    Kemper Mini $1000 (70%)


    They could also go with the hobbled FM3 approach to keep the Mini from cutting into the stage market. Just 3 or 4 buttons and the current LCD. That would justify the precipitous price drop from the stage.

  • For me personally the last comment makes sense, so I agree. Sorry for repeating myself: would you think of pimping Ford's T model(s) in 2022 to fit most modern needs? Yes, driving a car is NOT guitar playing but you get the point.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • I think If they were going for a different model, it would be the amp/cab sim small pedal sizes thing, maybe three foot switches, tbe size of the line 6 pedal. Where it’s key use would be to plop on a traditional pedal board, for players who want a KpA solely for its amp and cabs.

  • Also, I just noticed that Line 6 has a Helix HX (tiny thing with only 3 buttons, 3 knobs, and a touch screen) for $600. It has MIDI so it could take input from a FC for more complete control as well.


    Interesting how the floor controller world has matured in the last 5 years.

    HX FX doesn't have amp sims (don't remember but maybe cab sim too).


    I think if Kemper would purpose a Mini Kemper, they should split everything : haf size ; 5 switchs : 2 for up/down ; 3 for performances + second press for morph. None for FX. Eventually FX buttons, Only Main Volume (no gain knob), no profiler capabilities. The rest with app.

    Input/output : One input (of course 8o), One return, one send, 2 x 1/4" main, 2 x 1/4" monitor, one headphone, auxil, 2 pedals, no s/pidif, no midi, one USB. --> 800$ :thumbup:

  • HX FX doesn't have amp sims (don't remember but maybe cab sim too).


    I think if Kemper would purpose a Mini Kemper, they should split everything : haf size ; 5 switchs : 2 for up/down ; 3 for performances + second press for morph. None for FX. Eventually FX buttons, Only Main Volume (no gain knob), no profiler capabilities. The rest with app.

    Input/output : One input (of course 8o), One return, one send, 2 x 1/4" main, 2 x 1/4" monitor, one headphone, auxil, 2 pedals, no s/pidif, no midi, one USB. --> 800$ :thumbup:

    That doesn't sound half bad. I think I am coming around to the idea of a mini that can't access all 5 slots of a performance without 2 presses. Getting past this makes it so it can be made smaller.

  • For me personally the last comment makes sense, so I agree. Sorry for repeating myself: would you think of pimping Ford's T model(s) in 2022 to fit most modern needs? Yes, driving a car is NOT guitar playing but you get the point.

    LOL. Interesting simile.


    The difference being that the Model T is functionally inferior in every way to a 2022 vehicle. The KPA is not functionally inferior to anything on the market (with respect to ability to use on stage or tone). Yes, it uses older technology than the young punks on the block, and it doesn't have any where near as flashy of a GUI or editor; however, it still sounds as good or better than anything on the market and is equally functional in a live gig.


    In all the discussions I have read on these forums over the years, the biggest complaints I have heard:


    1. No dual amps
    2. Inflexible routing options
    3. No color touch screen

    1 and 3 don't seem that interesting to me for a gigging musician. 2 has some merit IMO, but only for those who are heavily into efx and complex routing.


    FWIW, my old Digitech 2120 had some VERY powerful routing capabilities back in the early 90's. With respect to routing, it was superior to the KPA in every way and it had a 3rd party editor that was more powerful as well.


    Sounded inferior in every department compared to my KPA, but it had a very flexible routing ability!


    I question if even KPA2 will be what people are thinking. Kemper has made its mark with an amp-like routing and an amp-like experience. There is nothing simple about a graphical routing model. It isn't simple to setup, it isn't simple for most people to understand how it will sound, and .... well, it just isn't "simple". I know there are many things you CAN do with such routing, I just don't know if they result is something that is worth the trouble..... and more-over, I don't know if a KPA2 would fundamentally change the company philosophy to the point they wanted to be more "fractal like".


    I would say that for people for who efx routing is an important part of their sound, the Axe III fx is the best in class. It is hard to understand why such a person would even want a KPA. Even though the efx in the Kemper are outstanding, you can't do the routing with them that you can with the Fractal.


    Anyway .... end rant ;)

  • 2 X LOL.


    It is so interesting and amusing how we can easily pull rhetorically everything in every direction. So let me do the same - we are all the wise guitarists and marketing experts after all ;-). What you say is clearly not true. A Ford T model is clearly superior to modern cars if it gives you the nostalgia you wish and search for in cars and your goal is to be able to easily fix broken engines with your own hands. So if functionality means this to someone and he finds it in a T model, my Ioniq 5 is clearly inferior. As I said (let me just repeat for you:), yes, driving a car is NOT playing guitar. I KNOW it is not that you did not get the point ;-). Let's be crystal clear, again: The Kemper is superior FOR ME and I bet for (this does not lay claim to scientific correctness) most other guitarists in ONE but very basic point: its AMP sound. What could there be to not understand if many, like myself, NEED everything an AXE FX can do (maybe except its AMP sound) but with the amp quality of the Kemper? Should I sacrifice this basic point? Well many maybe decide so. I don't. The Amp sound is more important to me so I have to go the hard route and use external gear. Is it legitimate to dream and wish about a complete solution? You decide. I say yes.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • Yes :saint: but in another thread, cause this thread is about a kemper mini :D

    Is it legitimate to answer to what is said in THIS thread?

    That's what everything was about, in case you missed.8o

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

    Edited 2 times, last by Alienator ().

  • Model T associations aside, what I believe to be true is the following:


    1. There exists a large market for sub 1K high end guitar processors
    2. There exists a large market of existing Kemper owners who would love a smaller version or to have it as a backup.
    3. Kemper does not currently have a market offering in this segment
    4. Minor modifications to the existing KPA product could result in a product that meets this market need
    5. Expanding the volume would create efficiencies at Kemper for the entire product line


    I think we need an entire different thread to discuss if there is any market reasoning for a KPA2.

  • Yo hold up, what if the Kemper mini was actually the 1st form factor of a new kpa2?!?!? Maaaaaaaan, that'd be a hard flex right there!

    :thumbup:This.

    As requested long ago: Generation II starting with the Mini, then a new Head and Rack. Or in whatever order else.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • :thumbup:This.

    As requested long ago: Generation II starting with the Mini, then a new Head and Rack. Or in whatever order else.

    What would be even crazier is if it had a processing and routing power that would rival everything else above its class with the flagship models towering over even more than that.

  • What would be even crazier is if it had a processing and routing power that would rival everything else above its class with the flagship models towering over even more than that.

    Now we two have a conversation , man 8o. Yes, a new thing for the next 10 PLUS years to just leave the competition speechless and the customers smiling. A Kemper II mini would be the the perfect starter IMHO.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • Kemper II? Yes please then the price of existing models will drop like a stone and I can buy some backups to save me moving the same unit from studio to rehearsal to gig ?

    (Why am I thinking so hard of the T-Model, again...:/)

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • There are many reasons why an entirely new architecture for pretty much any product is done on the premium line first.


    1. If only one product is using the parts, the economy of scale isn't there yet. This pushes the price up, but the premium line can better handle the higher cost.
    2. Engineering can focus on getting the product working vs. cost down efforts and optimizations for manufacturing
    3. Any issues in design and/or manufacturing are more easily handled on a low volume basis
    4. Supply chain setup for all the new parts is not as difficult at lower volumes.

    ... but I do love the way you guys dream :)


    You can see this in automotive. New features start off in the premium lines and then finally end up in the high volume products.