What's going on with POE and the KPA/Remote?

    I've had a lot of reliability issues with the Kemper which, after quite a bit of fiddling about, seems to be linked to the ethernet cable and remote.


    Luckily it has stayed up during performances but on power up the remote doesn't power up - plugging / unplugging bring the remote back up but as soon as you play a note the Kemper crashes. Power back up and its all OK.


    I have spoken to support about this and they suggested I try a POE injector, and this is where it gets interesting.


    Even with the POE injector at the Kemper end of a long 45ft heavy duty cable (which incidently wouldn't work with just the KPA and remote) its 100pc reliable.


    Is there something inherently dodgy about Kemper's implementation of power to the remote?


    Regards all

    It's not dodgy. It's not designed to push long cable runs. The longer the run, the more capacitance. The more capacitance - the more current (amperage) needed. At 45 feet, you're well beyond what the KPA was designed to deliver on its own.


    Think of it like using a buffer in a pedalboard. It isn't that the pedals suck or that the board is improperly designed - its physics.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Like 1

    I think you could get away with putting the POE at the Kemper end vs the remote end. The POE spec says 100 meters.... so WELL within your 45 ft.


    This would keep some of the clutter away from your performance position (one of my pet peeves ;) ).


    Ruefus is right though. Without a POE injector, a 45 ft run is well beyond what I would say is safe for the KPA by itself to push.


    I am using the stock cable with a Ethercon connection to my rack where I have a panel with an Ethercon on it (I have the KPA Rack and mount it in a rack that has a patch panel on the back with all the connections for my live setup). Even with this, the fine folks at Kemper recommended that I use a POE injector since the additional connections add resistance and capacitance beyond what they recommend.


    Having said that, I have been running it this way for many years without any problems..... and it is SUPER easy to set up my gig rig with the patch panel connections.


    I also cover the FC cable with 1/4" plastic conduit. This makes it so my cable is never twisted up and lays nicely on stage.

    From the Main Manual chapter Remote paragraph Cabling:


    The PROFILER and PROFILER Remote communicate with each other via an ethernet cable. The cable included in the PROFILER Remote package with its Neutrik® etherCON® cable connector carrier has been carefully selected and is perfectly suited for this purpose. If you decide to use any 3rd party cable, please make sure it meets our quality standards.

    The diameter of the wire is the critical factor. The cable delivered with the Remote meets American Wire Gauge 24 (AWG), which can support up to 7.5m (22ft) length. AWG 26 cables have a smaller diameter and can only support up to 5m (15ft). Cables with higher AWG e.g. AWG 28 should not be used with the Remote.

    Cables in excess of 10m (30ft) might require a Power over Ethernet Injector (PoE Injector).

    Quote from Ruefus

    It's not dodgy. It's not designed to push long cable runs. The longer the run, the more capacitance. The more capacitance - the more current (amperage) needed. At 45 feet, you're well beyond what the KPA was designed to deliver on its own.


    Think of it like using a buffer in a pedalboard. It isn't that the pedals suck or that the board is improperly designed - its physics.

    But it doesn't work reliably with your supplied cable which is within your own specs. Seems mighty strange that I can buy a $20 POE injector and run it down 100 metres?

    That's what I've done, put the POE injector in my rack. See my post above - built in POE won't even run down the Kemper supplied Ethercon cable. Love the KPA but really not impressed with this issue.

    Quote from BigYinUK

    But it doesn't work reliably with your supplied cable which is within your own specs. Seems mighty strange that I can buy a $20 POE injector and run it down 100 metres?

    Then something else isn’t right.


    For several years I’ve been using the stock cable, a 15 footer I made myself and a random 6 foot from an old router. All used extensively and in various situations.


    I’ve never experienced a reliability problem.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Quote from BigYinUK

    That's what I've done, put the POE injector in my rack. See my post above - built in POE won't even run down the Kemper supplied Ethercon cable. Love the KPA but really not impressed with this issue.

    I have similar experience as Ruefus. The stock cable, even when used with a patch panel which adds to the resistance and capacitance, works every time. With the stock cable, you should not need a POE injector. If this is the case, I think you should open a ticket with Kemper and see what needs fixed.


    Note, if you want to try something yourself, use a lint free material and some rubbing alcohol to clean off the contacts on both ends of the cable, the foot controller, and the KPA. Let it dry for an hour and see if it works any better.


    Shy of dirty connectors, I am thinking something more serious must be wrong. The KPA is not designed to act like that with the standard cable.


    Your home-made 45 ft cable .... it would never work with that without the POE injector.


    Question: If you have the POE injector (which you need for the 45 ft cable), do you really care if the standard cable doesn't work without it? This is especially true if you have this rigged up in your rack already.


    Just asking.

    As I'm using the stock cable and still having issues, as you say, there may well be something wrong with the profiler or the remote. But it is reliable with a short (2m) cable so I'm releuctant to send it back PLUS I use it all the time and can't really be without it.


    I have used switch cleaner and an air duster on the sockets at both ends but it made no difference.


    As I probably will need to use longer cables than the supplied one, I'll live with the POE injector in the rack with the KPA and see how it goes once I get back to gigging after Xmas.


    Thanks for all the replies.

    Quote from Burkhard

    Perhaps the original cable is broken.

    Although I suppose that's not impossible, it works fine with a computer to a hub and works fine with my TP-Link POE150s - KPA to Remote. I measured it at 24ft by the way, so well within spec (cable supplied by Kemper). I've literally only used the cable 6 or 7 times as I usually use a short 2m Cat5e cable.

    I'll see if I can borrow a remote to test. One of my friends has a Kemper so I can probably try that with my remote and see which component is causing the problem. One issue though is that it only does it the once when first powered on. Once its crashed and been rebooted it is reliable for the duration of the gig. No issues at all when not using the remote though.

    Quote from BigYinUK

    I'll see if I can borrow a remote to test. One of my friends has a Kemper so I can probably try that with my remote and see which component is causing the problem. One issue though is that it only does it the once when first powered on. Once its crashed and been rebooted it is reliable for the duration of the gig. No issues at all when not using the remote though.

    Mine did that when the Ethercon was messed up (my fault) and it wasn't plugged all the way into the connector.


    I am betting it is a problem with a connection.