Kemper Profiling Amp Successor

    Quote from piotrmaj

    I'd rather prefer KPA to remain simple and maybe just emit expressive MIDI via MIDI OUT / USB.

    This is something I can totally understand although I'm afraid it will require pretty specific features on the guitar/bass like polyphonic pickups and a corresponding multicore cable (from 4 string bass to 7+ string guitars). And then there's still the issue with latency introduced by the software that has to track and convert stuff into MIDI.


    Everything else you wrote I agree as well .... and how long would it take for people to ask for more than "just" regular sound synthesis from a couple of basic oscillators but also sampled instruments, wavetable synthesis, physical modelling and so on. I think this is a dark hole of enormous size and the wishes differ so much that we rather use a "synth" of our choice.


    In an ideal world there would be a guitar pickup system that does all the work and spits out perfect MIDI without any noticable latency and you just hook it up to whatever sound generator(s) you want. But some synth inside a Profiler? Thanks but no :)

    Quote from lightbox

    But some synth inside a Profiler? Thanks but no :)

    Nope. Don't want that, either. The ability to use existing plugins/modules etc the way a midi keyboard can today (Akai MPK Mini, Arturia Keylab....etc) would be a welcome and truly innovative technology.

    Fishman's Triple Play, although requiring its own pickup and onboard module, is an excellent example. I keep eyeing one....but more as an indulgence of "Let's see what we can screw with next...." than anything this else. That you can assign regions of the fretboard/string sets to trigger certain sounds intrigues the heck out of me.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Whilst a mono-synth implementation isn't out-of-the-question, anyone hoping for something that can interpret a polyphonic (chordal) signal via a guitar lead will be disappointed.


    Determining the pitch of single notes coming into the Profiler will add a small-but-acceptable delay, which should be fine for a bit of mono-synth fun, but the sophistication of an algorithm that can decipher individual notes in a chord (think Melodyne) would add way-too-much latency and wouldn't be feasible in the context some are hoping for I'm afraid; it just isn't gonna happen.

    @monkey man

    The latency thing can involve the algorithm taking a larger window - which is analgous in a way to "lookahead" for a limiter in that it takes a larger chunk of the signal and is able to come up with a better solution to the problem at hand.


    If it were merely a matter of taking more time to perform more calculations then increasing processor speed or more parallelism in the processing could make this happen faster over time. Roland gets both parallelism (six independent signals) and a simpler set of problems to solve with the Hex pickup method. There's is an elegant solution if you are prepared to go with the hex pickup - but they seem to be alone in taking that approach so far.


    Its funny how the guitar synth thing had a lot of momentum in the 80s and here we are - 40 odd years later - and it seems pretty slow progress in some ways. John McLaughlin used a quite incredible rig with a 360 systems pitch to voltage setup for each string and six separate minimoogs on one of his albums from the early 80s. The Synclavier system that Pat Metheny was using in the mid 80s sounded quite amazing at the time. Those setups required a lot of tech people and $$$ whereas a Boss SY- 200 costs about as much as a boutique drive pedal.

    Antipodes


    Van Halen & Ingwie happened..


    Everyone wanted to sound like them for many many years and styles like Jazz and even blues were "out" for many years until the mid 90s when they came back very slowly but steadily.


    Just right now for the very few last years you see all these holdsworth/jazz/fusion influenced kids coming up.


    We have right now a lots if young talented kids experimenting and trying new things like never before. They will not stop before they have tried everything new technology offers. That's for sure.

    Quote from Nikos

    I am not 100% sure about this. In any case I will agree that there are many players who will never get enough of tweaking and trying to "sound better" through the "more fx" thing but I never had the feeling that these guys are a "majority" to be honest.

    Also I dont see any problem in producing such a "KPA XXL".. should be not difficult.


    But this should not stop R&D for something more revolutionary.

    I'm sure there are some who would be like oh it's a thing? I do want this or oh i wasnt interested in this before but now that its here I'm in. But going over all the requests from people over the years and the number and type of things that have been added, the number of people who want more effects and profiles etc. Vs. The number of people who've asked for a synth future feature request is seemingly far less. If a synth request was much higher than all the others we would've seen that fulfilled sooner in some capacity i would imagine. And just so I understand what you're saying and what you're pointing at with what I said,


    You're saying that you think MORE people want and have asked for a synth feature, and that

    LESS people have asked and wanted more effects and profiles etc?

    No.


    I don t believe that "more people have asked for a synth"..


    For sure most people here and other blogs want more fx etc.


    I said that many players I know would love to have a synth in their guitar modeler.. And that's a fact.


    Other than that I use the triple play and it is perfect for my needs. It is just that I have it on one guitar and have to change between this guitar and other ones as well as I need to have a laptop and all that stuff.

    and one more thing about the "more fx" stuff ..


    Why would anyone need so many more delays and reverbs than the ones already available if not for making the guitar sound more like a synth;

    Quote from Nikos

    Why would anyone need so many more delays and reverbs than the ones already available if not for making the guitar sound more like a synth;

    I think those peeps' requests have been more about distortion pedals and chorus / other mod FX since the new delays and 'verbs dropped, Nikos.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    I think those peeps' requests have been more about distortion pedals and chorus / other mod FX since the new delays and 'verbs dropped, Nikos.

    Ok.


    Let's drop the idea with the synth.


    Let's continue with the next modeler and the next 1000x versions of the 5150 with a lots more of od pedals then..

    Quote from Antipodes

    Its funny how the guitar synth thing had a lot of momentum in the 80s and here we are - 40 odd years later - and it seems pretty slow progress in some ways.

    A synthesizer takes no real talent to play. So once the newness of the sounds went away, people realized my 7 year old can sound like a god on this thing.


    Who really wanted to go see Depeche Mode live and watch a few guys stand next to a keyboard pressing buttons?


    The new synth stuff (Dub Step, etc) can be programmed, not played to some extent. And hopefully that will be going away soon also.


    Most people would much rather watch Tosin Abasi tap out some other worldy sounding metal than watch some DJ play MP3s all night long. Oh wait, I am talking about millenials. Switch that around. Yeah, uh, dub step guitar is the future :wacko:

    Quote from Ruefus

    Uhm...that's categorically untrue.

    Since most people here may not speak english natively, I will rephrase for clarity.


    Playing a synth does not require any skill. The synth is doing most of the work. The sampler, wave table, arpeggiator, LFO, VCO, etc are making the sounds, not your fingers.


    No one will pick up a guitar for the first time and playing Stairway to Heaven. Everyone will pick up a synth and play Beeeeeeooooooooo sounds and pads, etc the very first time.

    Quote from RosboneMako

    Since most people here may not speak english natively, I will rephrase for clarity.


    Playing a synth does not require any skill. The synth is doing most of the work. The sampler, wave table, arpeggiator, LFO, VCO, etc are making the sounds, not your fingers.


    No one will pick up a guitar for the first time and playing Stairway to Heaven. Everyone will pick up a synth and play Beeeeeeooooooooo sounds and pads, etc the very first time.

    I live in Ohio and my comment stands.


    I’ve watched and seen what it takes to build those sounds and perform them with skill.


    You literally say it requires no skill.


    That is laughably untrue.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Edited once, last by Ruefus ().

    Quote from RosboneMako

    Playing a synth does not require any skill. The synth is doing most of the work. The sampler, wave table, arpeggiator, LFO, VCO, etc are making the sounds, not your fingers

    I think your view on synth-heavy music is very narrow. Buying a synth doesn't automatically make you Jordan Rudess, and having nice sounds doesn't automatically translate into great music. I also don't know if you ever tried to make rich, layered, expressive sound on a synth that would not be tiring to ears after 20 seconds? It is hard, but believe me that you can make synth patches as expressive as guitar parts, if not more expressive. Anyway, I don't really see a problem with an instrument being more approachable, so more people can be creative with it, express themselves and have fun.


    And if you think people are not willing to come and see a guy pressing button on a keyboard you should check live performances of, for example, Perturbator. :)

    Quote from piotrmaj

    I think your view on synth-heavy music is very narrow.

    You guys are just missing the point of my statements (and going way off course for this topic). I love synth music and have a couple synths myself. Huge Depeche Mode fan etc. I am just saying why guitar synth never took off.


    ... with one finger press you can make an amazing sound with no skill or preparation. I can turn on any synth and press a key and boom ... the most amazing sound ever. People respond to the humanity and effort being put into a performance.

    Quote from RosboneMako

    You guys are just missing the point of my statements (and going way off course for this topic). I love synth music and have a couple synths myself. Huge Depeche Mode fan etc. I am just saying why guitar synth never took off.


    ... with one finger press you can make an amazing sound with no skill or preparation. I can turn on any synth and press a key and boom ... the most amazing sound ever. People respond to the humanity and effort being put into a performance.

    Guitar synths never took off because they're difficult to implement. Extra pickups, added modules on the guitar etc.

    Were it possible to take any off-the-shelf guitar, connect it to a computer or synth module and produce the same "Beoewww" sounds as you call it - LOTS of people would want that. Starting with me.

    I wouldn't want it to be part of the KPA. You can basically do that now with a Fishman Triple play.....but you sill need the hexatonic pickup and module on the instrument. Being able to play synth sounds on my guitar....any guitar, without modifications? Yes, please.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Like 1
    Quote from Ruefus

    Were it possible to take any off-the-shelf guitar, connect it to a computer or synth module and produce the same "Beoewww" sounds as you call it - LOTS of people would want that.

    I agree 100%. I love synths. My point was synths in the 80s were a lot like guitar solos in the 80s.


    Guitar solos went as far as they could go in a musical manner. So by the late 80s-early 90s grunge and nu-metal took over. No solos anywhere to be found. There was not much new to say with a crazy solo that was not a gimmick.


    Synths suffered the same thing. By the 90s most of the possible synth sounds had been created. It took something like EDM/dub step/whatever to bring a fresh sound/approach. And then synth stuff took off again.


    And once people knew more about synths, it became obvious that a complete novice could make great music. And people respond to watching Yngwie or Flea tear into their instrument more than a guy pressing a key.


    As for the Kemper discussion, I tend to agree adding a synth to the Kemper would make the profiler/amp part a bit too complicated for most users. I would rather see a separate unit dedicated to MIDI creation, etc. But I would not turn it down either if the price was right.