Kemper Profiling Amp Successor

  • Well... no, I would like to turn that around forever. If guys think they do not "need" a successor, then the successor is not for them. That's fine (they maybe never played in a U2 tribute band, btw). But others simply "need" a successor with all the bugs from generation one removed plus more and better features so that the unit can finally do everything on the same high level it can do amp sound as a standalone unit in 2022 (to 2037). Sometimes you only realise what you "need" when you get it and have it front of you. It is only then you realise that you never want to go back and you cannot imagine how you used to live and make music without that innovation.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • And I do get these threads - we all have different needs, love this hardware, want it to be better and not share the fate of Virus. As much as KPA sounds and feels great its hardware is outdated and due for revision (I'm talking about Toaster). Audio via USB is a standard and useful feature nowadays. Startup time of over a minute sucks big time (during my latest gig we managed to blow up fuse and power down the whole stage) - when we got power back all devices, except my KPA, were ready to go within 10 - 15 seconds, KPA needed over a minute. UI is noticeably slow on Toaster when you compare it with... pretty much any gear produced in last 5-7 years.


    KPA Stage is a step forward in a sense that its main CPU is much faster, but still misses modern means of sending audio to / from computer. Not to mention that lack of MIDI via USB (every single device which as USB port I came across do it - KPA chooses to stay behind, for reason I just don't get).


    I care less about touch-screen, although it would be a good addition. I have a few synths, some with touch screen, some without - the one with touch screen is way more convenient to use. But synths have very deep structure to tweak - KPA is super simple, so touch screen wouldn't probably help much.


    From what I can see the Kemper was made to replace your amps, not your audio interface. That is probably why audio via USB is not something they have done. I am betting that there would be a lot of additional hardware needed to make that happen. It is a different design than what they have built.


    As for startup time, my Stage and my brand new FM9 take around the same time to boot up.


    I have my Stage connected to my computer via SPDIF. I can connect it via any of the outputs on the back as well. What are they missing other than the audio over USB mentioned above?


    What do you use MIDI over USB for? I don't have that need and seems like another audio interface function.

  • Well... no, I would like to turn that around forever. If guys think they do not "need" a successor, then the successor is not for them. That's fine (they maybe never played in a U2 tribute band, btw). But others simply "need" a successor with all the bugs from generation one removed plus more and better features so that the unit can finally do everything on the same high level it can do amp sound as a standalone unit in 2022 (to 2037). Sometimes you only realise what you "need" when you get it and have it front of you. It is only then you realise that you never want to go back and you cannot imagine how you used to live and make music without that innovation.

    That all sounds like FOMO to me. It is wanting one device to rule them all. These digital units start out with a specific design in mind. If they try to make the device the everything to everyone unit, they will fail. It just can't be done. You can't please everyone. You have to look at what your needs are an pick the unit that fits those needs the best. If you want a smaller form factor, those units exist, QC. If you want multiple amps and cabinets, Fractal. The design of the Kemper is to replace your amp and pedal board. Most people are not dragging three amps to a gig.


    We see many of these types of threads on here. They are just a bunch of complaining. Just to note, these types of threads also happen on the other digital device forums, I see them there too. I get it that one device that does everything a person can ever think of would be desirable. I believe that is what Fractal believes the Axe FX III Turbo is. It must not be or we would all have one and wouldn't be having this discussion on Kemper forum.


    I feel like this is starting to turn into a conversation that is not going to go anywhere good. I am not going to respond to it after this. These are the thoughts that I have that make me not understand these types of threads. I don't want to turn it into an argument, as I stated in my first post.

  • ?


    ... ok, whatever....I personally would love to gig with a Kemper without additional gear. For my needs this is not possible with this generation.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • This thread is so funny. It's like asking for a successor to a Plexi. LOL. The Plexi remains numero uno! and probably till the year 2525.

    The more you find what Kemper can do then the harder you try to find what it cannot do -- like make a good cup of Frappuccino.

  • What do you use MIDI over USB for? I don't have that need and seems like another audio interface function.

    I don't switch patches manually. My shows have lights synchronized to backing tracks and everything is automated via midi from Logic.


    As for your argument about KPA being just a replacement to amps - I think this alone just doesn't cut it for many in today's world. Competition caught up - you can get great tones from axe fx, helix and quad. All 3 are better suited for computer driven workflows, like mine - they require less cables/gear - essentially... just USB and you can do everything: play, record and reamp. I stick to KPA because I love the simplicity, workflow and the look - I bonded with it immediately and enjoy it everyday. I just wish it moved on a bit and be on par with other modern solutions when it comes to taking audio and midi in/out without tons of cables / interfaces.

  • This thread is so funny. It's like asking for a successor to a Plexi. LOL. The Plexi remains numero uno! and probably till the year 2525.

    I cannot believe this comment. Dude, no hard feelings, but no, it is not. Neither funny nor "like asking for a Plexi successor". These are both so unbelievably different and off topic things. Not even the comparison between the two tools is near what I think you maybe want to say. If you wanted really to say anything valuable.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • I cannot believe this comment.

    Bayou is here to have fun (like most of us are). So his comments serve up some insight/point with a comedic twist.

    I don't get these threads. My Kemper does everything I want it to do.

    We all agree the Kemper is amazing. The fact it is as old as it is and is still the best out there says loads about the design and follow thru the Kemper team has been doing. Does not mean we cant dream of the next rev and what we think it should be able to do.

  • I don't switch patches manually. My shows have lights synchronized to backing tracks and everything is automated via midi from Logic.


    As for your argument about KPA being just a replacement to amps - I think this alone just doesn't cut it for many in today's world. Competition caught up - you can get great tones from axe fx, helix and quad. All 3 are better suited for computer driven workflows, like mine - they require less cables/gear - essentially... just USB and you can do everything: play, record and reamp. I stick to KPA because I love the simplicity, workflow and the look - I bonded with it immediately and enjoy it everyday. I just wish it moved on a bit and be on par with other modern solutions when it comes to taking audio and midi in/out without tons of cables / interfaces.

    My understanding is that you can do the automatic rig changes with MIDI and the current units. So the issue that you have with it is not that it can't do it but that you want it to do it through a USB connection to cut down on the number of cables you hook up. I can understand wanting the convince but the functionality is there if you want to use it. The current circuit boards in the units may not be able to handle this type of communication. I am sure if they can Kemper may consider adding this functionality.


    I think my point is still valid. By your own admission there are units out there that are probably a better fit for your needs/wants. Your decision is to stick with the Kemper and want it to do everything the other units do. That is the exact scenario that I mentioned. I am not trying to start an argument with you. I am just having a conversation with you. As I mentioned, this happens on a number of other forums with other products as well. If you want to wade through a ton of options and have to make a decision on what works best for you try buying new DAW software. That has been giving me a headache. I know I have to accept the software for what it does and how it does it. I will have to learn it's workflow and use it in the manner in which it was designed. It is the same scenario with more options to sort through.

  • We all agree the Kemper is amazing. The fact it is as old as it is and is still the best out there says loads about the design and follow thru the Kemper team has been doing. Does not mean we cant dream of the next rev and what we think it should be able to do.

    I understand dreaming. The reason these types of threads make me scratch my head is that they are always complaint threads. People complain that Kemper doesn't do things or doesn't do them the same way that another unit does them. If the unit doesn't do what you want it to do and another unit does, you probably chose the wrong unit for your needs. That makes me wonder if the threads are really buyers remorse or the grass looks greener threads. FOMO


    For me, my Kemper gives me the best amp like tones I have heard from a digital unit. That in itself is enough for me to learn how the unit works and use it in the manner that it was designed. If they choose to enhance it in some way with software updates, that is just icing on the cake. Expecting new features frequently is another whole topic in itself. My Kemper is not the only digital unit that I have. It is however the one that I plug into the most.


    If these threads are really about dreaming of what you want it to do, they should be posted as such in the requested feature areas but done in a positive manner and not a complaint thread. IMHO

  • This is only my opinion. Well purchasing a new device which emulates sounds which are from 20 to 70 years old... I have learned to be happy with what I have and how to optimize it at full potential. In fact I am fully happy with Kemper when I use also the amp parameters which bring me the "feel" I want, not only the "sound". I tested the Quad Cortex, which sounds also good. I would have to spend hours and hours to find exactly what I want, and I prefer spending this time playing and composing...

    Finally investing 1500-2000€ in a new device which doesn't bring me something new sonically, I don't want (and my wife neither, hahaha)

  • The reason these types of threads make me scratch my head is that they are always complaint threads. People complain that Kemper doesn't do things or doesn't do them the same way that another unit does them. If the unit doesn't do what you want it to do and another unit does, you probably chose the wrong unit for your needs.

    I view it differently. I have a unit which does 99% of things right. I miss this 1%. I have two options:

    1. Switch to other unit which will surely have different 99% done right and different 1% missing
    2. Let my favorite manufacturer know about my needs and maybe, if more people recognize the same problem, they will add requested features in the future.

    I chose 2. because I don't want to change my workflow. And I don't see this as a complaining or being ungrateful, unthankful and generally villain.

    Profiler is not product from Food & Shelter category. Quite the contrary - it is at the very top of pyramid of needs. It is a luxury item which gives us joy and simplifies our lives but in no way it is something anybody couldn't live without. Expressing our needs about how to make it perfect in the dedicated section of the forum (created, maintained and encouraged by manufacturer) should not really be viewed as complaining or bad faith but is a way to tell C. K. how he should prioritize future features.


    And to finish this off, I'll give you an example from DAW world, since you're shopping for DAW: imagine a situation when you have a DAW which ticks almost all the boxes, you like it, workflow is awesome, it is perfect for you but has one missing feature, let's say it can't render MP3s directly but you have to render WAV and then run external command from terminal to convert WAV to MP3. Would you:

    1. accept the the state of things because there is a workaround which works,
    2. switch to other product, despite you don't really bond with its workflow,
    3. let manufacturer know that maybe it is a good idea to add such feature to your favorite DAW?

    This example is taken from real Live (pun intended) and Ableton finally implemented direct MP3-rendering because people requested it badly. This was many years ago (10, maybe more) but I hope you can see analogy to MIDI-over-USB situation.


    Anyway. Let the feature suggestions pour in, even if they come across as complaining to some - this is the only way we can influence future of KPA to make it perfect.


  • I agree with what you are saying. I am not going to go through threads and quote the things that get said in them but they are not all worded in the way a feature request should be. They are down right complaints that have the tone that the Kemper is junk because it doesn't do this one thing exactly the way the person wants it to. The interesting thing is that the people making these statements stick with the unit and will throw the obligatory statement in that it is the best unit in the world, except it is junk because of this one thing. Pretty much every one of these types of threads has those comments in it.

  • First, my tube amp took more than 1 minute to warm up when first turned on. Sure, it made noise when first turned on, but it really didn't get its sound hot until about a minute later. Having said that, I wouldn't mind it if CK made a KPA2 that booted in <10 seconds!


    Next, I agree with many who have said that they don't WANT the KPA2 to become a Fractal look alike. Having said that, there are still many things you can do on a color touch screen that simply are horribly difficult with just buttons and encoders positioned around a monochrome LCD.


    Finally, there will absolutely have to be a KPA2. The parts will become obsolete that make the current KPA.


    I think it is a very worthy question to ask if the KPA should stay "easy to use", or become "more flexible in routing".


    My vote would be to stick with the "easy to use" and "easy to get good tone", but get a color LCD touchscreen and make the work-flow better.


    Also, there is nothing wrong with wanting MIDI over USB or recording over USB. In fact, I would be shocked if KPA2 didn't have both of these features.

  • I would want:


    More DSP for a longer signal chain.

    Faster rig switching time.

    Complete spillover/trails support for all FX slots - the Kemper is the ONLY unit on the market where you lose trails when putting delay and reverb before the amplifier.

    More sensible controller logic - the fixed pedal selectors just makes no sense to me. Make everything freely assignable like the Helix.

    More accurate profiling - it just struggles with some amps, and the differences are very clear in a/b scenarios when this happens.

    Add a 4-way knob that can act as a scroller and a up/down/left/right selector. Works brilliantly on the Helix and avoids the need for more physical controls.

    A floor unit and a rack/desktop unit.

    A bigger display, higher resolution, full colour, nicer graphics.

    A proper signal chain display where you can navigate through the unit and control all of your blocks - avoid having dedicated soft button selectors for FX blocks

    Get rid of the antique sci-fi aesthetic!!

    Run more than 1 profile at once.

    Make the differences between studio profiles, DI profiles, and merged profiles, way more obvious.

    Give me snapshots within a rig as well.

    Morphing between rigs!


    UI/UX stuff:

    I hate all of the long press/hold to achieve a different result stuff - it isn't intuitive and slows everything down inherently. Just give me different modes or a button to cycle between different views.

    Easier rig naming - yes I know you can connect a QWERTY keyboard.

    If I have an effect loaded into a block.... can you just let me browse the presets FOR THAT EFFECT!! Don't even allow the possibility that my stupid fingers could accidentally switch the effect to a different one. The two column browser approach where everything is combined really sucks when you only have one knob to use.

  • Finally, there will absolutely have to be a KPA2. The parts will become obsolete that make the current KPA.

    Wasn't the story with their Virus TI2 synthesizers, that was introduced in 2009 and is sold even today, with no perspective for next version? These synthesizers get very good reviews and have been used by The Prodigy, TOOL, Periphery, Nine Inch Nails, Gary Numan, Depeche Mode, Jean-Michel Jarre, Celine Dion, Dr. Dre, Linkin Park, No Doubt, Radiohead, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson - to name a few.


    I'm sure Depeche Mode guys were not complaining - "Oh, I need this and this and also this, because it limits my workflow. When will next version with features A B C come out?"


    I don't know the future, but I wouldn't be surprised, if current Kemper Profiler would be its only incarnation.

  • Wasn't the story with their Virus TI2 synthesizers, that was introduced in 2009 and is sold even today, with no perspective for next version? These synthesizers get very good reviews and have been used by The Prodigy, TOOL, Periphery, Nine Inch Nails, Gary Numan, Depeche Mode, Jean-Michel Jarre, Celine Dion, Dr. Dre, Linkin Park, No Doubt, Radiohead, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson - to name a few.


    I'm sure Depeche Mode guys were not complaining - "Oh, I need this and this and also this, because it limits my workflow. When will next version with features A B C come out?"


    I don't know the future, but I wouldn't be surprised, if current Kemper Profiler would be its only incarnation.

    1. Needs differ so hard. A wish, a hope and suggestion are not complaints. They never were. We should get this simple thing into our brains, once and for all.

    2. You compare apples to oranges. Synth sound is not a complex guitar rig chain with a core tube amp sound plus various fx.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • Front input eq would be nice and a little different.


    Allow the front gate to be able to change to a different gate style and movable in the chain.


    An actual dry blend knob in the cabinet section.



    How about some more compound effect types?

    Boosters with comps

    Dirt and overdrive/ fuzzes with gates.


    Just a few things I thought of that could be implanted in the current hardware and/or implementation into a new hardware while keeping the current architecture in mind.

  • 1. Needs differ so hard. A wish, a hope and suggestion are not complaints. They never were. We should get this simple thing into our brains, once and for all.

    2. You compare apples to oranges. Synth sound is not a complex guitar rig chain with a core tube amp sound plus various fx.

    1. Looking from time to time on this topic and similar ones, it's hard to tell a difference. Only requesters know, if they wish or they complain.

    2. Surely guitar signal operates in analog realm (even when shaped by digital substitutes). But I don't agree that the "rig" chain and FX of synth is simple compared to guitar one - oscillators, envelopes, resonance, timbres and all FX that you can apply to guitar - phasers, delays, reverbs and counting,