Modular Amp Newbie: Is Kemper Stage right for me? Or Fractal FM3?

Both Kemper and Fractal are excellent products and both will do what you need. The choice really comes down to which you prefer the sound of and which workflow suits you best. Unfortunately only you can answer these questions I'm afraid.

Hi alexreinhold , great structured post, welcome to the forum. As this is the Kemper forum you might not expect too much advertisement of your non-Kemper option though

Still Alan ( Wheresthedug) made the right point of looking at your particular needs and has put it pretty neutral

Quote from alexreinhold

However, after hours of reading, I am still not sure what is right for me.

Sounds like there is only one way to figure out. Try it out and start with one of the units to see if it suits your needs. Naturally you want to avoid any hassle returning it once you feel it is the wrong choice. But that risk remains in any case. You'll find very few entries here in the forum of people who returned their Kemper for whatever reason. But there are a few. Sometimes I feel that people did not spend enough time to dive into the "universe" this machine offers to you. Sometimes it's also that they do not want to miss the exact feeling they experience with their tube amp. Kemper's cabinet or Kone options are good to come as close as possible. So maybe the powered cab is a good choice as per your requirements above.

Quote from alexreinhold

I want to extend my setup by a piece of hardware that:

gives me an edge over Amplitube / Neural DSP in terms of sound and more flexibility than my amp
is small and portable but can be extended with a power amp to use with a cab
can be used for everything - practice, recording, gigging

All aspects covered by the Kemper for sure. Coincidentally I do know Bernhard Stephan who is the creator of Steavens amps as we had some business a while ago and I had the pleasure to visit his little factory a few times. Great guy! So I know that the Poundcake is a beast but indeed not the most versatile one. The high amount of available high quality profiles with various amps is definitely a pro point for the Kemper in terms of flexibility on pro level.

Quote from alexreinhold

I am not on an eternal tone chase.

Same here and I have used my Kemper on many occasions as a "one-channel amp" with built-in high quality effects.

Quote from alexreinhold

after-market support (given that I am in Germany) is a topic.

Well as Kemper is a Germany-based company that should be a no-brainer at all. Nevertheless this forum is full of mostly positive mentions of their customer support which seems to be outstanding on global scale. Kemper folks are reading here as well and provide lots of good answers and solution hints.

Hope all that helps a bit - final decision can only be done by you. Cheers

I think the comparison should be between de Stage and the FM9.

Both units are great.

And both have a very different approach to get the same results: great sounds.

So if you get to know how does each system work, in that moment you'll probably know witch one is a better fit for your wishes.

And if you like both ways, you can go Quad Cortex.

I think the reamping features may be a distinction. I have never done this so so I could be way off base...

The Kemper will let you Reamp thru the 1/4" analog ins/outs or thru SPDIF. These are a few extra connections you will need to make.

Many other modelers may just require a single USB connection.

Kemper and Fractal do the same thing but Fractal takes you way longer to do it and costs more in the end. Kemper gives you free unlimited upgrades.

Quote from BayouTexan

Kemper and Fractal do the same thing but Fractal takes you way longer to do it and costs more in the end. Kemper gives you free unlimited upgrades.

I would have to agree 100% although I had a couple of Axe FX units, not the FM3 or FM9. It would take forever to program my Axe FX's and my patches would all need to be re-tweaked after many of the firmware updates. There were also so many variables to consider (which is a big plus for some people) and I would find myself spending WAY too much time re-adjusting my presets.

Now, I only use Michael Britt profiles with my Kemper and I'm already 90-95% of the way there tone-wise. Most of them only need minor EQ adjustments and no extra time is wasted going down various rabbit-holes like I used to with the Axe FX. The other thing is that if you do buy an FM3, I guarantee that Fractal will come out with the new and improved version in a year or two. Not so with Kemper. They got it right from the beginning.

That said, Fractal makes an amazing product and I'm sure the FM3 would sound wonderful and work perfectly for your situation. It just depends how much extra time (and money) you have on your hands.

buy both devices,test both devices and keep the one you like more,i own the Axe 3 and Kemper Stage but i really prefer the Kemper sound,im tired of Fractal updates,the last Fractal update really make my presets sound like shit so i need to rebuild my presets again

Quote from jabromusic

I would have to agree 100% although I had a couple of Axe FX units, not the FM3 or FM9. It would take forever to program my Axe FX's and my patches would all need to be re-tweaked after many of the firmware updates. There were also so many variables to consider (which is a big plus for some people) and I would find myself spending WAY too much time re-adjusting my presets.

Now, I only use Michael Britt profiles with my Kemper and I'm already 90-95% of the way there tone-wise. Most of them only need minor EQ adjustments and no extra time is wasted going down various rabbit-holes like I used to with the Axe FX. The other thing is that if you do buy an FM3, I guarantee that Fractal will come out with the new and improved version in a year or two. Not so with Kemper. They got it right from the beginning.

That said, Fractal makes an amazing product and I'm sure the FM3 would sound wonderful and work perfectly for your situation. It just depends how much extra time (and money) you have on your hands.

Agree 100% on the MBritt profiles. I use them exclusively live and must say that they perform very well! I especially like his Friedman BE50 Deluxe profiles in his "Crank N Go" profile pack. I have built several performances around 5-6 of those profiles and am very satisfied with the results...sit very well in a live mix and are consistent gig-to-gig. Important!

Knowing I could dig in and handle technical rigs, I once had a preamp that would let you tweek mic placement, tube bias, tube/solid state balance etc etc. TONS of tweeking options. I was messing with it constantly. Played a gig with a guy with his one channel amp, with like three knobs on it and he killed my tone. Knowing how good units are now I decided to go all digital and replace my heavy tube amps. At the time there was mostly Kemper & Fractal units being used by pros. After understanding that a Kemper is as good as the profile you use, not reliant on models or factory settings plus is simple to understand and you can tweek but not much is needed in most cases with good profiles, I went with a Kemper and couldn't be happier. I was dialing up the best sounds I ever had in minutes, and now spend almost zero time tweeking and more time playing. Levels and FX are about the only thing I ever adjust, I rarely even mess with EQ. The Kemper is magic to me and just so musical. My only regret is I wish I would have bought the Power rack instead of toaster so I could panel mount the footswitch in and XLR out for live durability.

Lets start off with I love tweaking. But tweaking is also a blurry distinction between the Kemper and others.

On most modelers you can tweak a lot of things. But you are stuck with the basic sounds programmed into the unit. So you can only tweak so much.

With amp profiling you can tweak infinitely. There are 18000 rigs on the Rig Exchange you can start with. And you can make your own profiles. So you can dream up all kinds of bizarre real world things to profile. Like screw a speaker to your acoustic and then mic it up and make a profile. Setup three amps that are all mic'ed and summed to a mixer. YOU could be the person who creates the greatest guitar sound ever heard.

Not to mention the Kemper software is super tweakable. They really should get a lot of credit for how great the software is when it comes to adjusting tone. They did an amazing job. I was playing with my POD HD last night and was constantly reaching for adjustments that only exist on the Kemper.

My point is:
- Most people get the Kemper so they DONT have to tweak.

- If you like to tweak in hardware, there is no substitute for a Kemper.

The only thing Kemper is missing is the ability to profile itself. But I keep asking for it so maybe.... some day....?

It took me about 3 months to decide on a Kemper or Axe. I tried the Helix first and dumped it after 2 weeks. I did like you did and signed up on these forums to ask a zillion questions. Every one of them was answered by a forum member here. I bought mine just over a year ago and never looked back. I haven't even turned on a tube amp in about 8 months. I smile at some of these clowns (affectionately termed) all proud of their expensive new tube amp purchase while I look at the $100,000.00 of amps at my fingertips. Many I would never get the chance to ever play.

I definitely found Kemper owners more friendly and wanting to share more than Fractal owners. My opinion is that Fractal owners work their butt off to get a good tone and they don't want to easily share what they worked hard to get for themselves.

Quote from BayouTexan

My opinion is that Fractal owners work their butt off to get a good tone and they don't want to easily share what they worked hard to get for themselves.

well that is not really true,i own the Axe 3 and is super easy to get a great tone with the Axe 3 in less than a minute,in the Fractal community are lot of fan boys but there also cool people that like to share their presets.

Fractal units are pretty good but i use more the Kemper

Quote from Dynochrome

After understanding that a Kemper is as good as the profile you use, not reliant on models or factory settings plus is simple to understand and you can tweek but not much is needed in most cases with good profiles

This is a very important point! The Kemper can sound horrible if you use horrible sounding profiles. I remember turning my Kemper on when I got it and the first few stock profiles that I heard were pretty bad and I was underwhelmed. Pete Thorn basically said to wipe the Kemper clean when you get it and buy as many Michael Britt profiles as you can afford. He was 100% correct. The Kemper really came to life with those MBritt profiles and I continue to only use his profiles which keep getting better and better!

I found a lot of nice people in Fractal forum, too.

I got the AX8 when I knew about its existence. I didn't even think about kemper because I wanted an all in one solution.

As soon as the Stage was released I got mine. Well, I really bought it before it was released.

I actually prefer Kemper way. If it'd fit in a cabin case, I'd use it overseas, too, but that's not the... case.

I don't use the AX8 anymore because it's really too much (and too big) for my actual needs (overseas I use my Atomic 6).

I'm waiting for a little Kemper to be released. I "know" it will happen sooner or later. I'll pay for it as soon as it's possible. That will be close to perfection.

I don't think Pete is much of a Kemper fan. How much do you see him use it? Once? I completely disagree with "wipe the Kemper clean when you get it and buy as many Michael Britt profiles as you can afford". MB profiles are really good, but not the end all. TJ & BM have awesome profiles as well. Did Pete try those before saying that? Bet not. There are many profile that came with my Kemper that are more than just usable. For instance try MB's free EVH profile or his BE100 profiles and then try the one in the new legends pack (Bert's profile BE100) and tell me what you think.

Quote from Rayosytruenos

I found a lot of nice people in Fractal forum, too.

I got the AX8 when I knew about its existence. I didn't even think about kemper because I wanted an all in one solution.

As soon as the Stage was released I got mine. Well, I really bought it before it was released.

I actually prefer Kemper way. If it'd fit in a cabin case, I'd use it overseas, too, but that's not the... case.

I don't use the AX8 anymore because it's really too much (and too big) for my actual needs (overseas I use my Atomic 6).

I'm waiting for a little Kemper to be released. I "know" it will happen sooner or later. I'll pay for it as soon as it's possible. That will be close to perfection.

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My powered toaster and footpedal went in the cabin with me just fine. It took less space than half the peoples carry ons, Not to mention their purse, diaper bag, neck pillow and blanket combo.

Quote from Dynochrome

I don't think Pete is much of a Kemper fan. How much do you see him use it? Once? I completely disagree with "wipe the Kemper clean when you get it and buy as many Michael Britt profiles as you can afford". MB profiles are really good, but not the end all. TJ & BM have awesome profiles as well. Did Pete try those before saying that? Bet not. There are many profile that came with my Kemper that are more than just usable. For instance try MB's free EVH profile or his BE100 profiles and then try the one in the new legends pack (Bert's profile BE100) and tell me what you think.

I've actually tried a lot of the TJ and BM profiles. I'm actually a big fan of BM's profiles for studio work and just playing at home. There's just nothing that comes close for live performances like the MBritt profiles to me, but YMMV. (Also, I'm playing clean to slightly overdriven sounds 95% of the time so there's probably other high gain profiles that would work better in those situations).

Quote from jabromusic

I've actually tried a lot of the TJ and BM profiles. I'm actually a big fan of BM's profiles for studio work and just playing at home. There's just nothing that comes close for live performances like the MBritt profiles to me, but YMMV. (Also, I'm playing clean to slightly overdriven sounds 95% of the time so there's probably other high gain profiles that would work better in those situations).

For sure. Whatever works for you and ends your search for sound is where it's at. I am finally at the point with my Kemper that I can switch it on and cannot find anything I would change. Then I can just play instead of turn knobs!