The "Kemper Rig Player"

what about a monitor cab off button? Speaker imprints? DI and quater inch outs? I would need these as well.

I think the point here is a simple live tool that you pre load with all the complex set up in the KPA.

I sort of get it because all my set up is at home so do I need to take my full function unit around with me?

The only challenge is what is the advantage. Cost yes although I would still need the full fledge KPA.

Form factor - I'd still need 5 footswitches at least to switch within a performance. I use 2 performances with 1 band so I'd also need to toggle up and down. Plus I like to switch effects in on the fly, so back to almost the same number of switches on the remote.

Plus I want to know what I've selected, so need an LCD screen.

You then end up with a "detuned" stage, which i think has legs. However, I still want a power amp for when I play festivals so I end up back with the rack and remote so possibly not for me

Good shout though.

I would prefer if the new Kemper was exactly the same size but profiles amp's at 99% accuracy with the full sweep of the amps's EQ and Gain controls. That would be EPIC! I already put a deposit down. Ok, so maybe they could have a black version.

Quote from BayouTexan

I would prefer if the new Kemper was exactly the same size but profiles amp's at 99% accuracy with the full sweep of the amps's EQ and Gain controls. That would be EPIC! I already put a deposit down. Ok, so maybe they could have a black version.

There are units that do that already.

They’re called modelers.

Quote from Ruefus

There are units that do that already.

They’re called modelers.

Oh yeah? So you say there are modelers out there that capture an amp's full spectrum of tone anywhere from zero to 10 on EQ and Gain with just one profile? Where? And I do mean "capture" not mimic.

Quote from BayouTexan

Oh yeah? So you say there are modelers out there that capture an amp's full spectrum of tone anywhere from zero to 10 on EQ and Gain with just one profile? Where? And I do mean "capture" not mimic.

Yeah. You’ll never see that. The closest you’re going to get is a modeler. They mimic an amp’s components to create a digital version.

I suppose you could profile each component of the amp and create a dynamic profile. Horrifically impractical.

I’ve never understood the desire for a profile to mimic all the controls and their interaction. Who cares? Does it sound good or not?

Quote from BayouTexan

I would prefer if the new Kemper was exactly the same size but profiles amp's at 99% accuracy with the full sweep of the amps's EQ and Gain controls. That would be EPIC! I already put a deposit down. Ok, so maybe they could have a black version.

I suggested this sometime ago by a Kemper being able to take multiple profiles at each extreme range and then fill in the gaps. Obviously the KPA can't do this at the moment and would require a KPA2.

As mentioned though, I'm not sure what benefit there really is as those interactions are not necessarily designed in and not always favourable. At least with the KPA the changes are linear and predictable.....add more bass and you only add bass, not impact mid and Treble.

Has anyone tried to compare by doing some kind of bench test, I'm not sure I've seen that? In other words, I assume you can replicate from 1 profile of say a Marshall Plexi (1 channel) its full range (eq and gain) with tweaking....plus more....if that was the case then not sure this request is necessary BUT I suspect I'm wrong

Quote from BayouTexan

I would prefer if the new Kemper was exactly the same size but profiles amp's at 99% accuracy with the full sweep of the amps's EQ and Gain controls. That would be EPIC! I already put a deposit down. Ok, so maybe they could have a black version.

Apart from wishing for this feature, how do you imagine the workflow for doing this?

I even think it may be semi-possible but you’d have to do a profile with the bass at zero, with the bass full up etc etc for each control. And you’d probably have to repeat it at different gain settings, since gain/eq structure affect each other. So that might be 20 passes at profiling, instead of one. And still people would then complain that it’s not close enough. You’d have to input in the kemper precisely what you are profiling. You’d have to know if the eq is pre or post gain, since that makes a huge difference in behaviour. And to be honest, how many would get something wrong in all of these passes? I mean, how many people even know if the eq in their amp is pre or post gain? And what about amps that have special controls like bass shift, high cut filters etc etc….

For commercial profilers this means much much more work, and therefor higher prices. Which nobody would be willing to pay.

And for many “home profilers” the learning curve would be pretty steep, they’d get it wrong and flood forums and social media with “this crap is not working” posts.

So while i am symphatic to the request (in fact i think it’d be fantastic) i don’t think it is anything but a theoretical possibility.

HOWEVER i think that having the graphic eq built in post cab (without having to waste a slot on an eq) would solve a lot of peoples misgrievances with the limitations of the 4 band amp eq. You really can sculpt the sounds significantly with this. Keep the four band eq in the amp section, but add the graphical eq right after the cab. That or give us more slots (use the page left and right buttons to scroll the slots, we do that all the time with parameters inside the slots anyway).

Quote from Kim_Olesen

Apart from wishing for this feature, how do you imagine the workflow for doing this?

Just for the EQ section, probably a continous reference signal going through the KPA while you turn in sequence the controls fo min to max one after the other (obviously in a defined order, kind of a checklist) could be enough to measure the range of each. Though the interaction between them would probably be lost.

I personally find the EQ section of the Rigs to be far more flexible then any real amp...

The interaction is one of the important parts. I have much more faith in a solution that implements this:

http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/index.html

I actually think there is a good chance Kemper is working on something similar already based on the peculiar eq button decisions that has been taken.

Quote from musicmad

The interaction is one of the important parts. I have much more faith in a solution that implements this:

http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/index.html

I actually think there is a good chance Kemper is working on something similar already based on the peculiar eq button decisions that has been taken.

I think you are right, this is probably a better way to achieve it!

Quote from musicmad

The interaction is one of the important parts. I have much more faith in a solution that implements this:

http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/index.html

I actually think there is a good chance Kemper is working on something similar already based on the peculiar eq button decisions that has been taken.

That is a very interesting concept, and one that could potentially 'solve' the request for interactive controls.

It will be interesting to see what Kemper have up their sleeves. It's usually along the lines of something the community asked for....but with a, shall we say... very 'Kemper' methodology. (Kemper Drive, Fuzz, Kone...etc.)

Quote from Kim_Olesen

Apart from wishing for this feature, how do you imagine the workflow for doing this?

I even think it may be semi-possible but you’d have to do a profile with the bass at zero, with the bass full up etc etc for each control. And you’d probably have to repeat it at different gain settings, since gain/eq structure affect each other. So that might be 20 passes at profiling, instead of one. And still people would then complain that it’s not close enough. You’d have to input in the kemper precisely what you are profiling. You’d have to know if the eq is pre or post gain, since that makes a huge difference in behaviour. And to be honest, how many would get something wrong in all of these passes? I mean, how many people even know if the eq in their amp is pre or post gain? And what about amps that have special controls like bass shift, high cut filters etc etc….

For commercial profilers this means much much more work, and therefor higher prices. Which nobody would be willing to pay.

And for many “home profilers” the learning curve would be pretty steep, they’d get it wrong and flood forums and social media with “this crap is not working” posts.

So while i am symphatic to the request (in fact i think it’d be fantastic) i don’t think it is anything but a theoretical possibility.

HOWEVER i think that having the graphic eq built in post cab (without having to waste a slot on an eq) would solve a lot of peoples misgrievances with the limitations of the 4 band amp eq. You really can sculpt the sounds significantly with this. Keep the four band eq in the amp section, but add the graphical eq right after the cab. That or give us more slots (use the page left and right buttons to scroll the slots, we do that all the time with parameters inside the slots anyway).

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Simple solution -- Add tubes to the Kemper.

You can't underestimate the power of A.I. and computing technology -- said to double every 18 months. They have some impressive and scary stuff coming in our future so I would easily omit the "theoretical" from the "possibility".

Quote from BayouTexan

Simple solution -- Add tubes to the Kemper.

You can't underestimate the power of A.I. and computing technology -- said to double every 18 months. They have some impressive and scary stuff coming in our future so I would easily omit the "theoretical" from the "possibility".

Here again though, it isn't a question of technology. But practicality.

One of the reasons CK said he developed Profiling was:

Quote

....As a basically lazy person I spent my time trying to find an automated method...

If you have to profile/model/whatever each component - and by the nature of your request you would - forget it. It's no longer automated.

https://www.guitar-muse.com/kemper-profiling-amp-2949-2949

Quote from BayouTexan

You can't underestimate the power of A.I. and computing technology -- said to double every 18 months. They have some impressive and scary stuff coming in our future so I would easily omit the "theoretical" from the "possibility".

Hmm, working in the IT industry, A.I. I think is often misused and I can see it being a tag associated to things not necessarily related to automated learning. I think there is a real risk of overestimating it as some kind of golden bullet ( that is the combination of a silver bullet and golden ticket..real magic!) :).

All computers will work on inputs, as they need something to learn from, usually requiring a fair amount of data to assimilate.....and what are they learning? I never quite got what was A.I. in the Quad, but hey maybe I missed something.

Anyway, back to your point....I think there is opportunity here to make the KPA more flexible and/or Amp like in how it responds, rather than in its currently more linear fashion.

For me, its not that important to replicate a specific amp in ALL its parameters, just capturing those sweet spots is all I want.

I think you guys are thinking too much the "old school" way. There was a time when getting a line to hit a dot on a TV screen was thought to be impossible and not practical and needed to much data to do.

For me, the pinnacle of modeling is when an amp's total parameters are captured in full and digitized to a file, or if the modeler becomes sonically better than what any tube amp can ever do. Technology itself makes things practical. A 42" Smart LED TV cost me 1/3 what a 25" tube TV cost me 25 years ago. Just my opinion but I've never subscribed to "it can't be done" group. It can be done and comparatively cheaper.

Quote from BayouTexan

I think you guys are thinking too much the "old school" way. There was a time when getting a line to hit a dot on a TV screen was thought to be impossible and not practical and needed to much data to do.

For me, the pinnacle of modeling is when an amp's total parameters are captured in full and digitized to a file, or if the modeler becomes sonically better than what any tube amp can ever do. Technology itself makes things practical. A 42" Smart LED TV cost me 1/3 what a 25" tube TV cost me 25 years ago. Just my opinion but I've never subscribed to "it can't be done" group. It can be done and comparatively cheaper.

No one (at least not me) is saying it can't be done. It most certainly can and has been done. Fender's Tone Master series is proof of that.

"Better than a tube amp" is a wholly subjective standard. The Roland JC120 is arguably 'better' than a tube amp for a clean sound. If that sound is what you need/want.

The KPA already has the ability to perform tweaks well beyond what any tube amp can do. That's repeated in the manual several times.

What I think is old school thinking is continuing to demand that a virtually limitless tool (the KPA and its competitors) be forced to mimic/profile/whatever the design limitations the analog technology imposes. Why people are fascinated and or obsessed with duplicating what came before makes no sense to me.

If the idea is to create unique sounds....and it is....why create copies of what's already there? By definition - turn one knob away from 'stock' on a Profile and you've got a unique sound. The only question is "Does it sound good?"

Quote from musicmad

The interaction is one of the important parts. I have much more faith in a solution that implements this:

http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/index.html

I actually think there is a good chance Kemper is working on something similar already based on the peculiar eq button decisions that has been taken.

I have been banging on about the interaction between eq bands for ages and always refer people to the Duncan Tone Stack tool to illustrate this. It really does an amazing job of showing what a traditional tone stack does.

Most traditional modellers use this type of component simulation which is why they need such powerful DSP to achieve their results. The genius of the Kemper is how it can get the end result so efficiently.

CK said a long time ago that he was considering modelling some classic tone stacks but nothing ever happened. I would be interested in hearing from ckemper whether this is still something he is considering or if the idea was dropped for some reason.

For what it’s worth, I personally like the consistency of the current EQ block rather than having to learn the EQ of each amp I want to use. If I wanted that level of complexity I would definitely have bought an AxeFX.