How to get Max Volume from Powered Kabinet?

  • I bought a powered Kabinet, tried it at a band rehearsal with a real drummer, playing rock/punk style music and with its volume knob up all the way it wasn't really loud enough for him to hear behind his kit, nor really for me to hear well in the loud room. I'm quite confused about this, since I have two 100 watt amps (each with 2x12's), neither of which I can turn past 3 before they're too loud at rehearsal, but the powered Kabinet is 200 watts and maxed at 10 it was not loud enough.


    Am I missing something? How can I get the max volume from the powered Kabinet with my unpowered toaster?


    Thanks in advance!

  • This is the related paragraph in the Main Manual:


    If you are playing at high volume levels, either in rehearsal or on stage, we recommend setting and leaving the volume knob on the KEMPER Power Kabinet™ at maximum position and using the PROFILER’s Monitor Volume to control the levels instead. This way, you achieve the optimum signal headroom by creating a perfect level match of your KEMPER Power Kabinet and your PROFILER. If you need to go even louder, you can still increase the Power Amp Boost – just make sure you keep an eye on the Wattage Meter, as you must not exceed 200 watts when playing! The PROFILER’s digital soft-clipping circuit is perfectly aligned with the Kabinet’s power amp, and the Wattage Meter reflects true values. If you do not set the Kabinet’s volume knob to maximum, then the soft-clipping circuit might chime in too early, and the Wattage Meter will show exaggerated values.


    For relaxed “playing at home” levels, none of this is necessary – set the Monitor Volume of your PROFILER to -12 dB or less, and simply adjust the Power Kabinet’s volume knob to your liking.

    • If you connect two KEMPER Power Kabinets to PowerHead or PowerRack models, you should disable their internal power amp.
  • I bought a powered Kabinet, tried it at a band rehearsal with a real drummer, playing rock/punk style music and with its volume knob up all the way it wasn't really loud enough for him to hear behind his kit, nor really for me to hear well in the loud room. I'm quite confused about this, since I have two 100 watt amps (each with 2x12's), neither of which I can turn past 3 before they're too loud at rehearsal, but the powered Kabinet is 200 watts and maxed at 10 it was not loud enough.


    Am I missing something? How can I get the max volume from the powered Kabinet with my unpowered toaster?


    Thanks in advance!

    2x12s will always sound louder than 1x12s, due to there being two speakers, twice the amount of air moving and double the dispersion.

  • 2x12s will always sound louder than 1x12s, due to there being two speakers, twice the amount of air moving and double the dispersion.

    Only 3db-6db louder. Not twice as loud. The added weight might not be worth it.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • I have the feeling that 200w solid state ls about the same power as a 15w tube amplifier:) Its a shame that solid state and tube amps uses watt as a "guide" as how powerful/loud it is. It should be written in db or something to avoid confusion.

    I get that you can hook up different cabs on a amplifier which has something to say as to how loud you can get, but there should be another way of translating perceived rehersalworthy other that wattage.

    Maybe a sticker from meshugga or something on all amps and frfr stating that the amp/speaker is "rehersal friendly" :)

  • I have the feeling that 200w solid state ls about the same power as a 15w tube amplifier:) Its a shame that solid state and tube amps uses watt as a "guide" as how powerful/loud it is. It should be written in db or something to avoid confusion.

    ...

    A watt is a watt no matter where it comes from. 15 watt tube = 15 watt solid state. Decibels are the same too no matter what produces the sound. A fly buzzing your head at 2db can be just as annoying as a police siren behind your car at 115db, or a 115db death metal band from Shangri-La doesn't sound as good as a 2db Careless Whisper (George Michael pun).

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • But what makes a 15w tube amp seem louder than a 200w solid state? I guess i could google it, but havent you run across this phenomena?

    It is possible especially with low wattage tube amps at really high levels, that the power amp is saturating as well, adding the impression of a louder signal (soft or not so soft clipped) without actually being louder (in peak dB).

  • 2x12s will always sound louder than 1x12s, due to there being two speakers, twice the amount of air moving and double the dispersion.

    This is what I thought until I connected a second Kabinet ( unpowered) and you get an immediate drop in volume ( presumably due to ohmage), then turn back up and dispersion to my ears is no different. Ironically I prefer my single Kabinet over running 2....

  • Given I gig my unpowered Kabinet and use exclusively at rehearsal, I had heard concerns of the Kabinet not being loud enough.


    I decided to turn my amp up way louder than my rehearsal volume which competes against a loud drummer and other guitarist. Bearing in mind at regular rehearsal without ear plugs, my ears and head hurts...its loud.


    So when I turned up beyond that to the point where I physically could not stand the volume even with ear plugs in, I was pulling less than 50 watts.


    I know volume to power is exponential, but I never understand why anyone would need anymore power.


    So, is the powered Kabinet loud enough for rehearsal....undoubtedly. You just have to make sure the settings are correct.

  • But what makes a 15w tube amp seem louder than a 200w solid state? I guess i could google it, but havent you run across this phenomena?

    THD.


    An amps power is measured to the point of distortion. I think ( but could be wrong) that they measure at 5% THD. Solid state amps stay distortion free until close to destruction then clip aggressively. Therefore, the power rating of a SS amp is pretty accurate.


    Valves on the other hand clip very early on and still provide significant extra power way beyond that level. However. That extra power comes at the cost of too much distortion to qualify as usuable power. Remember that valve amps weren't originally used for rock guitar. Manufacturers were trying to make clean hi-,fi amps so were only interested in how much power they could produce without distorting.

  • THD.


    An amps power is measured to the point of distortion. I think ( but could be wrong) that they measure at 5% THD. Solid state amps stay distortion free until close to destruction then clip aggressively. Therefore, the power rating of a SS amp is pretty accurate.


    Valves on the other hand clip very early on and still provide significant extra power way beyond that level. However. That extra power comes at the cost of too much distortion to qualify as usuable power. Remember that valve amps weren't originally used for rock guitar. Manufacturers were trying to make clean hi-,fi amps so were only interested in how much power they could produce without distorting.

    FWIW, in my initial question/post I mentioned:

    "I have two 100 watt amps (each with 2x12's), neither of which I can turn past 3 before they're too loud at rehearsal"

    One of those is solid state, and is actually 120watt, a Roland JC 120, and the other is a Marshall JCM800 tube amp (100 watt). Both are around the same volume level at 3-ish. My power Kabinet, with the onboard dial maxed wasn't as loud as those at ~3. It's still pretty unclear to me what a 200 watt rating for the powered Kabinet "means", but I didn't expect to have any volume issues.


    I've since found where my unpowered toaster's Power Amp Boost setting is (thanks to the replies here) and will be trying that at our next rehearsal. I had thought that setting only applied to the powered toasters, so that was a bit confusing.

  • FWIW, in my initial question/post I mentioned:

    "I have two 100 watt amps (each with 2x12's), neither of which I can turn past 3 before they're too loud at rehearsal"

    One of those is solid state, and is actually 120watt, a Roland JC 120, and the other is a Marshall JCM800 tube amp (100 watt). Both are around the same volume level at 3-ish. My power Kabinet, with the onboard dial maxed wasn't as loud as those at ~3. It's still pretty unclear to me what a 200 watt rating for the powered Kabinet "means", but I didn't expect to have any volume issues.


    I've since found where my unpowered toaster's Power Amp Boost setting is (thanks to the replies here) and will be trying that at our next rehearsal. I had thought that setting only applied to the powered toasters, so that was a bit confusing.

    Yeah it is a bit confusing that the power amp boost is used for non-powered, I think that is a common mistake and I almost guarantee that is your problem.


    Gotta say - Roland JC120 and Marshall JCM800 - 2 mega amps!

  • I've since found where my unpowered toaster's Power Amp Boost setting is (thanks to the replies here) and will be trying that at our next rehearsal. I had thought that setting only applied to the powered toasters, so that was a bit confusing.

    FYI, after pushing the Power Amp Boost all the way up, the powered Kabinet was plenty loud enough to be heard by our loud drummer behind his kit.


    Per recommendations that I've read, I had the Kabinet turned all the way up and controlled the overall volume using the Master volume on my unpowered toaster, which I did not have to max out.

  • FYI, after pushing the Power Amp Boost all the way up, the powered Kabinet was plenty loud enough to be heard by our loud drummer behind his kit.


    Per recommendations that I've read, I had the Kabinet turned all the way up and controlled the overall volume using the Master volume on my unpowered toaster, which I did not have to max out.

    Hi!


    You did not explicitly mention that you have checked Monitor Volume, that is only controlled relatively to Master Volume. Therefore I assume that the Monitor Volume is set pretty low, which might have been the problem.

    The Monitor Volume is visible on the Kemper Kone page.

  • FWIW, when I first spent time with my Kemper, i chose a number or profiles and immediately set to using them at rehearsals. Having levelled them all for my needs, with the loudest I use falling just short of clipping the output, I ALWAYs find professional and RigManager content to be significantly quieter.


    There might already be untapped headroom in the profiles which hold back the full output.

  • chu

    That is true - lots of quieter profiles out there. You can boost the volume of overly quiet profiles in several ways. Eg - you can get into the amplifier parameters and boost the volume there and play with other parameters like compression if you need to. Save your edits and you can match the volume of profiles that are too quiet for you to the louder ones.


    It seems quite common for professional profilers to do a profiling run with different gain levels on the amp they are profiling, starting with gain/volume pots down at 9 o'clock and gradually turning up for the progressively dirtier profiles. The result of profiling this way is loud dirty profiles and very much quieter clean profiles.


    If you are setting up a Performance with a set like this, you will likely want to boost the volume of the quiet clean profiles to better balance the levels.