Understanding Tone inside the Profiler?

Quote from BayouTexan

Like how much difference in coloring of the OD Stomp when using a "flat EQ'd Fender at Zero gain" to a "flat EQ'd Marshall at Zero gain"

You pose an interesting question. There are many, many variables.

When the EQ of a Profile is "flat" (all zeros), it doesn't indicate the EQ of the original amp was flat. It indicates the EQ settings of a Profile matches the unedited Profiler EQ settings of the original Profile.

The original Gain of the Profile likely comes into play, too. A Fender Profile that was created with zero gain would likely react to an OD stomp differently than a Fender Profile that was created with a gain of 10, but turned down to zero. The two Profiles would likely have their own individual different EQ characteristics, because of the additional harmonics generated by a "cranked" Fender amplifier. They also could have different compression characteristics, because amplifiers turned up higher compress more than amplifiers played at lower volumes.

Quote from BayouTexan

If I load up an OD stomp, say the Green Scream (TS-808), I have 5 options to use; Default, Crunch, Boost, Mellow, and Full. If I were to adjust any one of the parameters away from those settings then does the stomp no longer represent the tonal accuracy of the TS-808?

These are just presets. The Green Scream should act like a Tube screamer with other settings, too.

If you load any amp profile, it will color your sound, even with Gain at 0 (and that's a good thing).

Quote from BayouTexan

These two things I assumed but was not sure about especially if the Green Scream mirrors a real TS pedal across all parameters.

It may not fully answer your questions because:

1) How much does the Amp colour the sound - answer I suspect is...depends...if the amp was profiled with zero gain then that will be different (again I only suspect)

2) TS pedals seem to have a mythology of their own and pedals vary from one to another. People always also talk about the interactions rather the sound themselves, so I suspect Kemper will say it mirrors a TS but others will say it doesn't.

Oh the joy of sound.....

Quote from BayouTexan

Basically, I want to know if the tone I am trying to chase for my own personal use is stomp dependent or amp dependent, since I always use a stomp for crunch and high-gain tones. If it is stomp dependent then I would focus on that first.

I'm trying this out for tweaking profiles -- I will load a stomp with the amp OFF so I can hear just how the pedal sounds with the cab. When I get the stomp at a setting I like, then I will load the amp with Zero gain and slowly increase that to study what changes and how the strings react. So, I play the guitar concentrating on 2 areas; E and A as one area, and D to high E as the other area. The reason for this is I can get one area to have the characteristics and sound the way I want but not the other area. It is frustrating me. I'm trying to figure out how get get both areas right for me. You can say I have all day to do this so why not.

An example of what I get is that I can have a nice warm high end but the low end sounds flubby and hollow (like striking a hollow tube). Then if I get a good beefy and full low end the high end will be bright and brittle. At least that's how I am interpreting my tone.

It makes sense what you are trying to do and TBH partially why I don't use pedals, because its another dynamic that is a bit unpredictable - trying to balance the colour of an amp and pedal BUT I suspect you'll get your magical tone through this process.

Let us know how you get on!!!!

Quote from BayouTexan

I have two specific questions. I ask because I am interested in building my signal chains backwards and I'm trying to understand some tonal characteristics. Usually, you start with an amp and cab and then add on stomps and effects. I want to start with the stomp and Cab, add the effects, and then add the Amp.

If I load up an OD stomp, say the Green Scream (TS-808), I have 5 options to use; Default, Crunch, Boost, Mellow, and Full. If I were to adjust any one of the parameters away from those settings then does the stomp no longer represent the tonal accuracy of the TS-808?

If I load up an OD stomp set for Crunch, and turn off the Amp module, I will only hear the tonal characteristics of the stomp coming out of the Cab. So, if I plug in "any" amp with it's gain setting of Zero, how much will those amps color the stomp? Like how much difference in coloring of the OD Stomp when using a "flat EQ'd Fender at Zero gain" to a "flat EQ'd Marshall at Zero gain" in between the stomp and the Cab?

In theory, if the Kemper Green Scream is an accurate represent of the TS-808, and all amps are "basically" one-in-the same at Zero gain, then I should be able to accurately model the tone from a Kemper to a tube amp, hence, building backwards.

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Dude what ever you were smoking last night. STOP IT NOW!!! It is doing weord things to your brain 🤣

Basically the amp and pedal interact with each other rather than one being the key to the sound.

What you described in your last post about smooth highs resulting in flubby bass is a good example to focus on though.

Mesa Mark Series amps are famous for their EQ which is before the gain (clipping) stages of the pre amp. Therefore they act a bit like an EQ pedal in front of the amp. They change the character of the overdrive more than really shaping the tone. It is common for high gain Mark tones to have the bass at 0 and mids very low too. Pushing up the bass tends to make the amp tone way too flubby for many people. Mark series amp typically have the GEQ option and users use this to shape the tone of the sound after the OD has taken place. Boosting the bass later in the signal path and into a power amp with high headroom does flub out the same way as boosting it early in the chain.

Although I can’t be bothered faffing around with OD pedals and just use a good amp with the desired tone to start with, I appreciate that many people do use the TS as a means of cutting bass and boosting mids BEFORE the distortion to PUSH the amp. This is similar to the Mark Series design in many ways.

Another example is the Treble Booster which not only adds highs but also cuts bass. Once again stopping the bass from getting flubby. The high frequency boost before the OD stages of the amp affects the character of the OD rather than simply adding highs to the end tone.

Another way to achieve this is to use a GEQ in front of the amp.

Rather than trying to figure out what flat amp EQ and 0 gain etc does then modifying them. I would suggest simply trying an amp you like then moving the Kemper tone stack to the Pre position and playing with the EQ. Then try experimenting with a GEQ in front of the amp and see how each frequency band affects the distortion characteristics. This will teach you more about how pedals and amps interact than your original experiment IMHO.