Gig sounded awful

  • Its pretty simple to me...I suspect the problem is not a really bad sound, but a sound you don't like. Equally important but not as much of a disaster.


    if you can get a good sound at rehearsal through a PA system at volume, then it was the venue/sound guy. therefore don't over think it, play the long game and work with the next venue sound guy.


    Get there early, explain the problem you had and get his opinion. If the sound is the same and you don't like it but he does, then its your view of your sound. So sound isn;t bad, just not your taste. If he doesn't like it then you know there is a real problem.


    If it sounds good, then its a one off...


    In short, don't panic and make massive changes based upon this one experience :)

  • it was a different PA on a club. The thing is that it was hard to balance the tone on the new PA. I managed to balance it maybe just 30 40% with the rehearsal PA. The thing that blew me out was the gain. It was too much different from what i have used too...i know that sounds differ from pa to pa..room to room... a lot of people vs a small amount of people.

    I struggled with the Kemper until I plugged it into a stereo tube power amp and a 4x12 cab. My convictions now are that I will never use anything else.

  • You need to get a consistent sound on those. I don't know how you can possibly get a good sound for a show if what you are dialing in elsewhere is "completely different" it won't work. Are you using the IEM's at rehearsal?

    I am using IEM for rehearsals, but from time to time i am dialing in my live tones on the PA.

  • I built my profiles for playing live. I put a QSC K8 on a stand in my room and then put my amp next to it. I set my amp to the volume I would normally gig at. I then turned the mixer up to get the same volume out of the K8. That is the volume I dialed it in at and made it sound like the amp did in the room. I honestly didn't have to do much tweaking at all since I profiled that amp at that volume right were it was setting. I am very happy with the results of doing it this way.


    I then did a little recording last month. I didn't like the sound of my profiles at all. They were too dark. I had to make some adjustments and select a guitar that had a thinner sound to get tones I was happy with. Volume is everything with these units. If I can get myself to spend more time recording, I will make a copy of my profiles and tweak them to sound like I want them to for recording. IMHO, if you are using the unit for both purposes, you are going to need profiles dialed in for each use.


    I was actually surprised at how different the same profiles sounded. With what I experienced, I don't think I would try to dial in profiles for live use through headphones. That may work for dialing them in for recording. My plan going forward will be to dial them in for the specific use case that I am going to use them in.

    I don't own any amps so i can't profile anything , i am using commercial ones.


    For the live pourpose i am dialing them at loud volume, so that the PA can sound good, what the audience are hearing. I prefer to alter my IEM sound if that is what it takes to sound good. I tried a solution for this problem, and that is going straight to foh, and i am feeding another signal from the monitor out to the foh. The main output is feeding live speakers while the monitor out is feeding my IEM mix, and also the band's IEM. This way i can control the monitor out separately with the eq built on the output section.

  • I struggled with the Kemper until I plugged it into a stereo tube power amp and a 4x12 cab. My convictions now are that I will never use anything else.

    I tend to keep it as simple as i can. Guitar -> kemper -> FOH. I don't want to have a cab because this requires to mic it up for live, and that involves another mic, it involves the soundguy to know how to mic the cab, bleeding problems etc.

  • As others have stated, it sounds like master mono is the culprit, if anything, on your side- but I'd lay the blame soundly (pardon the pun) on whoever was at the desk. Since it sounded good in your IEMs, logically the problem was with the board.


    KPA Unpowered Rack, Kemper Remote, Headrush FRFR108s, BC Rich Mockingbird(s), and a nasty attitude.

  • I struggled with the Kemper until I plugged it into a stereo tube power amp and a 4x12 cab. My convictions now are that I will never use anything else.

    Irrelevant in this conversation because:

    1) We are talking about FOH not on stage monitoring

    2) He is happy with his direct sound via IEM's but not FOH

    3) IMO you should never rely on backline for FOH for balance and projection reasons, regardless of the size of venue. I always put my guitar through the PA.

  • Funny story. Few years ago was doing a bar gig. Kemper -> PA, IEMs. Second set, I sounded like shit. Turns out the gain switch on my belt pack somehow got changed. lol.


    KPA Unpowered Rack, Kemper Remote, Headrush FRFR108s, BC Rich Mockingbird(s), and a nasty attitude.

  • Funny story. Few years ago was doing a bar gig. Kemper -> PA, IEMs. Second set, I sounded like shit. Turns out the gain switch on my belt pack somehow got changed. lol.

    Mine was slightly different - turned out my battery was failing on my wireless! I was checking leads and the settings etc!

  • Mine was slightly different - turned out my battery was failing on my wireless! I was checking leads and the settings etc!

    It happens, right? I gig with a flat of fully charged Eneloop Pros now just in case. (My mic and guitar and in ears all take AAs). Nothing worse than having gear choke out mid set. I used to use the energizer industrial batteries, until one day I forgot I was out, and just grabbed a set of shitty gas station batteries - still energizer, but they died in my mic mid way through set #2. I did a battery change during an extended solo.

    Must have looked funny from the crowd.


    KPA Unpowered Rack, Kemper Remote, Headrush FRFR108s, BC Rich Mockingbird(s), and a nasty attitude.

  • The OP said that profiles generically had too much high and low EQ. I have also read about EQing profiles at volume.


    I am curious if people here have had issue with EQing at volume. When a speaker is getting pushed to its limit the highs and lows will fall away. Probably due to the non linear region of the magnetic fields at the ends of travel. Where a professional PA will be designed to be handle the power and stay linear throughout that power curve.


    So I wonder if it is better to EQ at a much lower volume where things sound best and trust that the PA used will be flat and linear?

  • The OP said that profiles generically had too much high and low EQ. I have also read about EQing profiles at volume.


    I am curious if people here have had issue with EQing at volume. When a speaker is getting pushed to its limit the highs and lows will fall away. Probably due to the non linear region of the magnetic fields at the ends of travel. Where a professional PA will be designed to be handle the power and stay linear throughout that power curve.


    So I wonder if it is better to EQ at a much lower volume where things sound best and trust that the PA used will be flat and linear?

    The Fletcher/Munson phenomenon will rear its head before you start to push speakers to their limits.

  • The OP said that profiles generically had too much high and low EQ. I have also read about EQing profiles at volume.


    I am curious if people here have had issue with EQing at volume. When a speaker is getting pushed to its limit the highs and lows will fall away. Probably due to the non linear region of the magnetic fields at the ends of travel. Where a professional PA will be designed to be handle the power and stay linear throughout that power curve.


    So I wonder if it is better to EQ at a much lower volume where things sound best and trust that the PA used will be flat and linear?

    there’s Two things for eqing


    eq at volume to avoid too much bass or treble

    And eq in the context of the band.


    At high volumes and guitar alone you would certainly think « naaa too much high end » but in a band context you need those.


    I suggest everyone to hear isolated tracks of Van Halen. I’m sure if you had those tones in your kemper, a lot of guitar player would say « how can I tame the fizz????!!! » works also for AC/DC tones ^^.


    It’s very complicated with those unit like kemper or fractal or whatever.


    Before you just had to be a guitar player with an amp, now you also need to be a sound engineer lol.

  • Good suggestion JoshuaL1. Go to youtube and find the guitar sound you like and put in for example," bohemian rhapsody guitar" or whatever, and you get iso tracks. It really, really helps setting up profiles if you know what a mic'ed up guitar amps sounds like, and if you've done a lot of recording. It doesn't sound like the amp in a room. Those Hi-mids are everything for a guitar tone to sound right.

  • went to the rehearsal room today with the guys in the band, and i've tried the tone from the gig. It sounded pretty bad. No bass..presence...but at the gig sounded quite oposite. I tried some minimum settings and it sounded impresively good with minimum tweaking. From the setup on my studio monitors, i dialed back the high cut to 6500 hz and a low cut at 80 hz and there i had it..the tone sounded absolutely incredible. So the conclusion is that the pa and the soundguy managed to f#%÷ up our sound really bad. Just wanted to share my experience.


    Thank you for all the tips

  • Totally agree except for the last part.


    I do virtually no eqing. I treat it like a regular amp, plug in and minor tweaks.


    Had yet ANOTHER compliment on my sound on Friday just gone.


    I think there is a real risk of people over thinking it as well.

  • tried a couple of more profiles, low cut at 80 hz and high cut at 6500 hz. Other than that is just not right. Maybe i should lower the presence as it tends to emphasize the +10 khz? Although i heave read somewhere that foh engineers of big bands that play arenas and whatnot are using this technique

  • I honestly have problems understanding the issue. Had an open air gig yesterday, my soundcheck lasted 5 min (the drummer one took almost 30 min). Sound was phenomenal (stage and audience). Sound guy was a pro studio engineer, btw....

    In my opinion this is really the only issue here: too many people that sits behind a mixing console without knowing what they are doing..