Midi Change Issue

  • I am using a Kemper Rack amp that receives all patch changes from playback VIA midi.

    Having an issue where sometimes the patch changes on the screen but it doesn't actually change in the Kemper.. Like its getting to much information to quickly or something..

    It will change from my mute patch to a song patch but doesnt re-activate the output. OR will show that it changes from a DIST patch to Clean but doesnt actually change.

    Everything on the Kemper shows that it changes but the tone / output doesnt change.


    Anyone experienced this or have any ideas?

  • Performance mode.


    Not a crazy amount.


    When Playback starts the song.

    The Kemper gets a change to the Preset and then the patch with in that.

    Then maybe a patch change at the chorus, then back for the verse.

    Very basic stuff.

  • ....


    The Kemper gets a change to the Preset and then the patch with in that.

    ....

    I don't understand what that means. What is a "Preset" in context of Performance Mode? And what is a "patch within a preset"?

    Perhaps a misunderstanding?


    I'm wondering if you are really using MIDI program changes. Or are you using the relative method via MIDI control changes # 47-54 or even mixing the relative and absolute methods to load Slots in Performance Mode?


    The relative method had been developped for universal MIDI foot controllers with memory restrictions. Using software to send MIDI I recommend using the absolute method with MIDI bank select LSB plus MIDI program change. For each Slot you find the corresponding bank select LSB and program change numbers displayed in the dark box on the left side. If there are no numbers, please disconnect your Remote temporarily.


    Make sure the Slot you intend to load is enabled. You cannot load a Slot via MIDI, which is not enabled.

  • As another user said, try using an app for seeing what midi data is really being sent. Perhaps you have an expression pedal/thingy where the midi thinning of data has gone broken, and it’s sending a continous barrage of midi cc data. In that case most devices that recieve that information will have their buffers overflowing.

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

  • Can you please explain, how exactly you change the patch (maybe with an numerical example)? Do you use the two CC commands or the PC command? I use the PC command and never had such problems. Maybe you also could try this. Do you maybe have some other MIDI signals (for other devices e.g.?)

  • So Using a Max for Live device in Ableton send bank / program changes to change Performances, Then CC changes to also change rigs with in the performance slots, and activate and deactivate Reverbs / FX.


    Its always changing to the right performance and slot when it should. But it almost doesn't complete the change.. The text / highlighted rig on the screen always change.. but it doesnt always change the audio.. if that makes sense.. So say one rig the Output level is NULL then the next the output level is at +5 or something.. It will show that it changes.. the lights on the Kemper change ETC.. but the actual sound output isnt always happening..

  • As another user said, try using an app for seeing what midi data is really being sent. Perhaps you have an expression pedal/thingy where the midi thinning of data has gone broken, and it’s sending a continous barrage of midi cc data. In that case most devices that recieve that information will have their buffers overflowing.

    I need to double check still. We had a couple days off and I was away from the rig.. But yea.. my thinking is that sometimes its getting two many changes at once.. etc.. or interference from somewhere.. The odd part is its not consistent..

    Top of our show, playback sends the Kemper to a "Mute" performance / a rig with no output level so that we dont have any un needed sound at the top of the show..

    Verse 1 of first song it opens up into a normal guitar sound.. The Kemper always changes patches.. but it doesnt always output volume.. even though it changes and shows that it changed... The green lights on the output level go up when theyre supposed to.. but doesnt actually output sound..



    Show file on playback and Kemper never changes.. yet this happens intermittently

  • Can you please explain, how exactly you change the patch (maybe with an numerical example)? Do you use the two CC commands or the PC command? I use the PC command and never had such problems. Maybe you also could try this. Do you maybe have some other MIDI signals (for other devices e.g.?)

    Ableton Sends a Bank / program change to change the Kemper for performance slot changes. Then within that every CC changes some other type of change

  • Also please check chapter in manual about "Effect Switches", page 340 in 8.5 Manual. For many CCs you have to send not only CC with non-zero value, but also a follow up CC with value 0. This is to simulate physical button press/release, which are required for press-and-hold function to operate properly. It is quite possible that you are not sending "button release" event and KPA is getting stuck in "hold" state.

  • So Using a Max for Live device in Ableton send bank / program changes to change Performances, Then CC changes to also change rigs with in the performance slots, and activate and deactivate Reverbs / FX.

    ..........

    Generally, I don't understand why you are mixing two methods to load Slots:


    method 1. With bank select and program change you can load any of the 625 Slots in Performance Mode.

    method 2. Why are you using MIDI control changes - that would be CC# 50-54 - to load Slots within the same Performance, if your software has capability 1?


    CC# 50-54 are adding the following (intended) complexities. Text passage picked from the Main Manual chapter MIDI:


    If Rig Button Morph is activated in System Settings, and the PROFILER receives subsequent control changes #50-#54 following the initial Slot load, these will trigger Morphing. So, the same button could be used to first load a Rig, and then act as a Morph Button for that Rig. To support all functions, values 1-127 should be sent when the button is hit, and value 0 should follow when the button is released. The setting of the “Momentary” option in Rig Settings determines whether the Morphing latches the morph sound and base sound, or if it immediately returns to the base sound as soon you release the button.


    Closing these CC#s 50-54 by sending value 0 - but not too early - might be adding complexity, that you don't seem to need. If you intend to use Morphing, you should use CC#80 instead, which works with any Slot and never loads another Slot.


    I also don't understand, why you don't mute sound via a simple CC#7 value 0, which emulates volume pedal in heel position. A dedicated "Mute Performance" is not needed. But perhaps your software sometimes does and you are not aware. The state of volume pedal is global and survives Rig and Slot changes!


    I'm wondering, if CC#47 is also involved. This just preloaads another Performance and needs to be followed by one of CC#50-54 to effectively load a Slot. Perhaps the display of the preloaded Performance is irritating. It's not yet loaded.


    And if you send MIDI commands related to a Slot which is not enabled, this Slot will intentionally not get loaded.


    We have no reports, that one can effectively load any other Slot optically, while acoustically the former Slot remains. And very many people are using MIDI to load Slots.

  • Ableton Sends a Bank / program change to change the Kemper for performance slot changes. Then within that every CC changes some other type of change

    That might be the error. You mix up PC and CC. Either you use two CC signals or one PC signal (see manual page 342). E.g. for the third bank in your 5th performance:

    CC#47 value: 4 (5-1, since we start counting from 0)
    and then
    CC#52

    Or wirth PC commands (page 343):

    PC#12 ( (#Performance * 5) - 5 + (#Slot - 1) := ((3*5)-5 + (3-1))


    Both together does not work!

  • Even in performance mode, you really only need PC meesages to change rigs. It is very understandable laid out. Performance 1 slot 1 is midipc 1. Performance 1 slot 2 is midipc 2and so on. Performance 2 slot 1 is midi pc 6 etc etc etc…


    I’ve never used anything else but pc for switching between performances and rigs.

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

  • Even in performance mode, you really only need PC meesages to change rigs. It is very understandable laid out. Performance 1 slot 1 is midipc 1. Performance 1 slot 2 is midipc 2and so on. Performance 2 slot 1 is midi pc 6 etc etc etc…


    I’ve never used anything else but pc for switching between performances and rigs.

    Don't want to be picky, but performance 1 slot 1 is PC#0, performance 1 slot2 PC#1 and performance 2 slot 1 is PC#5. You missed the counting from zero I guess.