Clean to overdrive

  • With the Kemper, I find great clean/edge of break up tones I really like and then want to push them into overdrive where I can still really hear the character of the original tone. I am struggle to find the best way to do this. Any thoughts?
    thanks


  • The PROFILER's gain control is absolutely tone neutral, it really does just increase the gain.
    Therefore, the same 'good' tone is available ove the whole gain range.
    In short, simply increase the GAIN, it does exactly what you say you want.

    Fine-tune the result with DEFINITION is needed.


    Have fun! :)

  • The PROFILER's gain control is absolutely tone neutral, it really does just increase the gain.
    Therefore, the same 'good' tone is available ove the whole gain range.
    In short, simply increase the GAIN, it does exactly what you say you want.

    Fine-tune the result with DEFINITION is needed.


    Have fun! :)

    I lot of people criticize the KPA in that its controls are neutral and therefore not reflective of the original amp.


    This is a great example of where this is an advantage.

  • The PROFILER's gain control is absolutely tone neutral, it really does just increase the gain.

    I doubt, when trusting my ears. What Kemper states maybe right in a very technical view. I always found when increasing gain a remarkable lost of tone clarity and especially a lost of the characteristics of the profiled amp. After all, distorted or heavy gain profiles tend to sound the same: mud, especially when played loud in a band context.
    From another tone experience: using above mid or heavy gain profiles and decreasing the gain level always leads to are real amp tone .


    Just my ears...

  • After all, distorted or heavy gain profiles tend to sound the same: mud, especially when played loud in a band context.

    While everybody is entitled to their own opinion, the sheer number of top producers and bands that use the PROFILER live or in the studio in a high gain context kinda disagrees with this statement. :)

  • Me personally, I would try a couple things:

    1) Gain as suggested above. Maybe tweak CLARITY and DIRECT mix level. Usually start around .5 and go up.

    2) Compressor before amp set to 3-6, 0-5, 85%, 1.1

    3) Treble Booster before or after the amp. Sometimes both. Adjust mix to get the gain you want.

    4) One DS pedal at a gain around 2, adjust mix as needed.


    Not sure fire fixs, but some things I have found that push the sound a little without drastic tone changes.

  • If I want to morph from clean to gain I would take a reverse approach


    1. Look for a good gain sound

    2. Reduce the gain and set the morph to heel

    3. Increase the gain and set it to toe

    4. Now you can morph from clean to the disired gain sound you like


    If find it easier to get a clean sound out of a top gain sound then to get a top gain sound out of a clean sound

  • This. Same proceedure if i want to 'push' a profile with a pedal. I pick a profile that is pleasing at its basic 'high' gain setting and at a reduced gain. Reduce the 'gain' knob and then push it with a pedal. Gives me the character of the pedal and the amp when pushed. I think the youtube dude Tonejunkie TV does a good instructionnal video on it.


    Purists arguing that 'its not the same' may have a point, but its not a very big one, and largely doesn't matter.

  • I doubt, when trusting my ears. What Kemper states maybe right in a very technical view. I always found when increasing gain a remarkable lost of tone clarity and especially a lost of the characteristics of the profiled amp. After all, distorted or heavy gain profiles tend to sound the same: mud, especially when played loud in a band context.
    From another tone experience: using above mid or heavy gain profiles and decreasing the gain level always leads to are real amp tone .


    Just my ears...

    I agree.


    I have been using the kemper for many years and I've found the gain function a weak point: in my opinion it works more like a boost than a real drive.

    I find it more satisfying to use a rig with more gain and turn it down than try to turn up a rig with less gain.

    With the gain I' ve increased the Distortion Sense, the Power Sagging, the Tube Shape... BUT the result was disappointing.

    I think the gain function is very important and they should improve it.


    This is only my opinion with my tweaking experience. :)

  • The gain stage of most tube amps are about as neutral as the Profiler, with little coloration.

    So they act as a booster as well.

    Therefore your perceptions are not exactly right.


    Exceptions are the Marshall JCM800 and Plexi.


    There is too much talk behind this aspect and no real evidence.

    Never heard of any Profiler user making the easy test while profiling to check for different colors of the gain controls.

  • I’ve found that increasing gain on an amp generally unsuited to it (AC30, Deluxe Reverb, Twin…etc) sound like crap. They were never built for it.


    An amp built for higher gain (Bogner XTC in my current case) react quite favorably to the gain knob being turned up. Very musical.


    It’s not identical to a different Profile of the same amp with the gain up (which I do not care about one way or the other) , but does sound good to my ear.


    YMMV. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I keep meaning to get round to trying it with a master volume amp like my Mesas. I have, howe, done A/B testing with a non master volume amp (THD Bivalve). I made a series of profiles with the amp volume at each point on the dial (named them using the clock face method to show volume setting on the amp) and uploaded them to Rig Exchange. I then loaded them into a series of performances so that I could switch between rigs instantly. I took a rig and checked the Gain level in the Amp menu. Then i took a another rig which profiled with a lower gain level and raised ther rig gain to match the reference rig and saved this. I also too a rig which profiled with a higher gain level and reduced this in the Amp menu to match the reference rig.


    I found that lowering the Amp gain resulted in an almost identical sound to reducing the guitar volume. Not quite the same as turning down the Volume on the original amp. However, it is quite likely that this sort of non master volume amp does behave differently than raising/lowering the gain on a master volume amp.

  • Gain stages of most tube amps are neutral? That's not even close to accurate. But I suppose neutral could mean different things to different people. First, THE gain stage is not an accurate concept in terms of almost all guitar amps. There are multiple stages where coloration can and does occur in almost every guitar amp. A Fender Super Reverb has two(normal and vibrato) channels with different gains in the path as an example. There is the amplitude related distortion in several stages in that amp as well as in the phase inverter and output section. Compare a Super with volume at two to the same amp at ten. It sounds like coloration to me. In fact, isn't that the whole point of profiling an amp with different gain settings? If the gain of the profiler was about as neutral as most tube amps then there wouldn't be a need to profile across the full gain range. I must be missing something here. ?(

  • Compare a Super with volume at two to the same amp at ten. It sounds like coloration to me. In fact, isn't that the whole point of profiling an amp with different gain settings? If the gain of the profiler was about as neutral as most tube amps then there wouldn't be a need to profile across the full gain range. I must be missing something here. ?(

    that's right! :thumbup:

    Play any rig with gain 6 and try to turn up to 7 or turn down to 5: in my opinion the Kemper's gain works well when I turn it down, while when I turn it up it doesn't give me the saturation I would like to hear.

    Saturation/distortion gives a different result than a volume booster.