Problem with recordings!

Ok, I asked you these questions because:

1. If you record the DI track through S/PDIF, you'll get a signal called "Git Studio" on the left channel of S/PDIF. This signal is your guitar going through AD conversion PLUS it's affected by the Clean Sens setting (one of many reasons I never ever mess around with any of the Sens settings. They will always sit at default 0.0, all of them)

2. If you are on firmware 8.7.1 or 8.7.2, there were issues with S/PDIF in both of them. Just today Kemper released a new (public beta) firmware that is supposed to fix these issues (8.7.3) that might have caused you headaches.

3. Whenever I record a DI track through S/PDIF, I always have the SPDIF output turned down to -1.0dB in the Profiler Output settings because this way I prevent inter-sample clipping. A setting of -0.3dB might already do the trick but I rather play it safe.

When I reamp through S/PDIF, I basically boost the signal by the corresponding amount in my audio interface's DSP mixer to be back where it was.

4. Just to be sure, you record the DI track into a mono track, right? And when you send the DI track to your interface's left S/PDIF channel to reamp, this also is a mono bus in your interface's DSP mixer? I'm just asking this because I've seen people struggle with the effects of panning laws and sudden / unexpected 3dB level bumps out of "nowhere".

Quote from Johndoebh

The DI signal is too hot compared to the wet signal.

Are you sure about that?

See the below picture. I'm just strumming my guitar and both clips show a decent DI recording with full dynamics from the guitar at studio level.

Now, the first clip on the Wet track is recorded with the profile gain turned down (to a clean sound). So you see how it still has all the dynamic range and high peaks. And yes, it's a touch higher than the DI signal because it still gets amplified a little through the profile and cab.

But now see the second clip on the Wet track. This is the same profile, just the gain turned up almost all the way. That's what happens with high gain sounds. Guitar signal gets heavily compressed so the peaks are much lower than the clean recording. That's normal and expected behavior. The corresponding DI signal looks hotter than the Wet. But in fact it's just a regular DI signal at studio level with full dynamic range.

Quote from Johndoebh

So at what level should the DI peak?

If you strum really hard, the DI (Git Studio) can and will peak close to 0dBFS. A direct (clean) guitar signal is very dynamic, its peaks can be pretty high. It should not clip though.

Quote from Johndoebh

Should it peak to the same level as the wet track?

No, if your profile has some "Gain", the peaks will get compressed. The tubes get pushed into saturation which results in compression. That's what guitar amps do (and the Profiler as well). A heavily saturated/compressed/distorted guitar amp sound has very little peaks but the overall loudness is much higher, regardless of the much smaller peaks.

Quote from Johndoebh

Shouldn't the S/PDIF provide the same output level on the wet track as well DI?

No, see above. The only thing you should watch regarding the "level" (which basically means "peaks") is that they don't clip. Other than that don't worry about peak levels. They are NOT an indicator for perceived loudness.

And last but not least, just try it on your own. Arm two tracks (DI and Wet) and hit record. Now while stupidly strumming your guitar, turn down/up your profile's GAIN. You will see how a clean setting will keep the full dynamic range including high peaks. Once you start going into slight distortion/breakup, you will see how the Wet signal starts getting compressed (lower peaks). That's the nature of tube amplification. The higher you go with GAIN on the Profiler, the more the Wet signal will get compressed.

Quote from Johndoebh

Why the DI sent back is clipping the input of the Kemper?

It should not clip the input. Generally, the input indicator LED of the Profiler flashes red even before it's actually clipping. The Profiler doesn't have a dedicated clipping indicator. Let me put it this way: If the recorded DI signal had clipped inside the Profiler, the digital S/PDIF signal still can only reach 0dBFS. And that's not clipping. Clipping would occur if the signal tried to go higher than 0dBFS.

If you set the Profiler input to "Input" and strum crazy hard, you should also see the LED flash red occasionally.

I agree though that the LED gets red more often when using "SPDIF Input Reamp" with your DI track fed back into the Profiler. But I would assume that in this scenario it just reacts a touch more sensitive. Maybe not properly calibrated by Kemper (in their Profiler software).

With all this being said (and assuming that everything is at unity gain in your DAW and DSP mixer), I still don't know / understand how your reamped sound can be more fizzy and/or gainy. Maybe there's something else wrong.

Here's one more question regarding this issue:

Once reamped, SOLO this newly recorded Wet track and play it back. Does it really sound bad or weirdly different? Or does it only sound bad once you listen to both Wet tracks together, e.g. because you try to achieve double-tracking effect?

If it's the latter it might happen because both Wet tracks aren't properly aligned. This easily introduces comb-filtering / phase issues. This can sound VERY annoying and bad.

Johndoebh

The Main Manual provides all information on this matter:

Step two: DI output leveling and recording

To adjust the DI output level, enter the Input Section and select the “Clean Sens” parameter. You might have used this control already, as it is used to adapt the individual level of your guitar to the overall volume level of the Rigs and PROFILEs as described in the chapter INPUT button. Adjust the “Clean Sens” parameter to a level where clean sounds have the same perceived loudness as distorted sounds; in doing so, you will have adjusted the dynamics of your instrument to match the digital headroom of the PROFILER perfectly. The output assigned to “Git Studio” is perfectly leveled at the same time.

While the ability to adjust the level of the amp is a convenient feature, it becomes critical when recording the DI signal, as it helps to keep the noise floor down. When you later reamp this signal with a high gain setting, the noise floor of the recording will be significantly amplified. The INPUT LED provides a further gauge for correct leveling: the LED should flash yellow when you hit the strings hard - try to avoid deep orange or red color.

Step four: reamping input leveling

For an optimum signal-to-noise ratio, leveling the reamping input is just as critical as leveling the pure instrument output. The leveling is done by the output level of the recording device; it cannot be adjusted in the PROFILER. The S/PDIF signal can only be adjusted in the sending device by definition.

Play your guitar through the armed track or play back a previously recorded track. Watch the INPUT LED while you adjust the output volume on the recording device. The LED should turn to yellow when the strings are struck hard,

but no further. This is all you need to do, so long as the Rig you are reamping has no distorting amp or effect in the signal flow.

If you reamp a distorting Rig, you might notice that the amount of distortion still differs from the original, despite following the above procedure. This is a natural consequence of the correct leveling of input and output: the leveling is made to achieve an optimum signal-to-noise ratio but does not deal with the preservation of the original instrument level. This is what the parameter “Reamp Sens” is for - simply dial the desired amount of distortion via ”Reamp Sens” - and you’re all set!

Your DI input should look like mine in the pic (Track #3). You would then adjust the volume fader of the reamp track fit in the full mix and just make sure it doesn't go over 0.0db. (-12 to -6db is best, and for the whole mix).

Note: I reamp without SDPIF using TS connections to interface. All my Sens in Kemper are 0.0db.

Quote from BayouTexan

Your DI input should look like mine in the pic

No, because what you record is Git Analog which is totally different to Git Studio.

Quote from lightbox

No, because what you record is Git Analog which is totally different to Git Studio.

Oh yeah. Missed that, you grouch.

Quote from Johndoebh

quick edit: my daw faders are now at 0.0 db for the wet and di

Once you get levels set correctly and everything is peachy, save the file as a Template so you can load it up for each new mix without starting from scratch.

Quote from Johndoebh

you mean that i should set the daw fader in order to avoid clipping kemper?

Yes.

Quote from Johndoebh

In this case..is it needed to trim down the clean sense?

Clean Sense only needs to be trimmed in order to obtain the optimum DI level when recording the guitar.