cutting through in live band with 2 guitars when other player uses valve amp

  • No, I don’t think you’re missing anything Guy. The more gain the basic profile has the less effective the guitar volume pot is for raising the solo level. For totally gained out metal it makes no difference in volume at all but with a Plexi or Tweed Deluxe etc it can provide a nlittle ce volume lift (as Angus has shown).


    By the way , the SG clearly is the best guitar because not only Angus used one but also Tony Iommi. Case closed 😁 (I don’t actually own an SG but thats not the point. I only play inferior guitars lke PRS and Musicman 😆)

    But Angus doesn't use his volume know for solo's as far as I'm aware...just watched a couple of videos to check and absolutely goes no where near his volume knob. I've seen him use it for quieter passages like Live wire post solo breakdown but not solo's. I suspect he relies on the sound guy riding the faders. Perhaps he did in the early days?


    Case back open - Tony played a John Birch and then Jaydee SG's in his early days :)


    BTW I LOVE musicmans!

  • …I suspect he relies on the sound guy riding the faders…..

    The most under appreciated member of any ensemble.


    The one person that can actually hear what the audience hears - and the only one that can do anything about it mid-performance.


    Don’t piss off the sound engineer. No amount of high-end guitars, amps and effects will overcome their particular brand of revenge.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • The most under appreciated member of any ensemble.


    The one person that can actually hear what the audience hears - and the only one that can do anything about it mid-performance.


    Don’t piss off the sound engineer. No amount of high-end guitars, amps and effects will overcome their particular brand of revenge.


    Ain't that the truth brother Rufus 🤘

  • Yours is the first comment I've read that suggests amp compression to solve the problem.

    Not my suggestion, it's what I learned from the video. There is a Kemper tutorial that explains the control very well. In fact all of the tutorial videos are right to the point and easier to understand than the manual is, and IMO, they are essential watching. I'm not crazy about the way the manual explains some things, and the compressor section is a great example where the video will make much better sense to you understanding what the control actually does. Many misunderstandings from manual interpretations are well explained in those videos including Clean sense and Distortion sense that is misunderstood by many.


    If I want backed-off volume to be softer do you suggest reducing compression?

    By softer do you mean less gain or less volume or both as you would adjust for those differently.

    Again, Please watch the video it will answer your question better than I could in about a minute.

  • Don’t piss off the sound engineer. No amount of high-end guitars, amps and effects will overcome their particular brand of revenge.

    And more importantly, don't allow one to mix your sound that would purposely make you sound bad. I'm not going to tiptoe around them, I expect them to do their job. They work for ME. Bad soundpeople can ruin everything you practiced for.Your spot on backups, awesome guitar tone and killer tuned drums can be reduced to garbage in the wrong hands.

  • And more importantly, don't allow one to mix your sound that would purposely make you sound bad. I'm not going to tiptoe around them, I expect them to do their job. They work for ME. Bad soundpeople can ruin everything you practiced for.Your spot on backups, awesome guitar tone and killer tuned drums can be reduced to garbage in the wrong hands.

    All true. Assuming logic is used. Humans are petty.


    A disgruntled sound engineer bent on making things not-so-good doesn’t care if they work with you again.


    The worst are the ones that aren’t doing it on purpose. It’s the ones that think they’re doing it right!!

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • The worst are the ones that aren’t doing it on purpose. It’s the ones that think they’re doing it right!!

    Agreed. I saw a show a few months back where the "engineer" was leaning back drinking a beer nodding his head like "all good" but the sound was atrocious. Kick drum was non existent and vocals were buried. You have to really understand and be able to diagnose low freq's to get good live sound. Ar bar level, many sound guys are the buddy that tags along and might as well be doing something worthwhile. Most aren't properly trained and the ones that are are working for a living and I can't afford.

  • And more importantly, don't allow one to mix your sound that would purposely make you sound bad. I'm not going to tiptoe around them, I expect them to do their job. They work for ME. Bad soundpeople can ruin everything you practiced for.Your spot on backups, awesome guitar tone and killer tuned drums can be reduced to garbage in the wrong hands.

    I do agree but.....


    I don;t think many sound engineers will purposely make you sound bad, but the certainly won't put in any effort to help you with the sound.


    They are also people - I've seen some band members act as if they are diva's and treat sound guys as their paid lackies. In reality, they are not paid by the band but by the venue unless you have your own guy. And whilst yes that is indirectly by the band, there are plenty of other bands that could have your spot.


    Its not always their privalidge to have you there.


    99% of the sound guys I've met are top blokes, of varying capability, more than often limited by the equipment than their talent that don't get paid very well so I'm also sending a bit of love their way :)

  • The « Volume knob trick » can be done with a real amp.

    I’ve done this for years, I was used to play HS or HSS guitars, tone could come from breakup to huge gain and volume boost with only volume pot and pickup switching.


    But it’s just impossible to do that with the kemper.


    I tried but even when switching from single coil neck pickup to bridge humbucker there’s absolutely no boost in volume just more gain and compression. Not the same at all as a tube amp.


    And I miss that a lot, really a lot

  • I tried but even when switching from single coil neck pickup to bridge humbucker there’s absolutely no boost in volume just more gain and compression. Not the same at all as a tube amp.

    but, I've been doing just that for a while live... :)

    check the Compression parameter in the AMP section, it should be @0 and make sure there isn't a compressor active in the STOMPS

  • The « Volume knob trick » can be done with a real amp.

    I’ve done this for years, I was used to play HS or HSS guitars, tone could come from breakup to huge gain and volume boost with only volume pot and pickup switching.

    Sorry but got to ask this again.....really and why?


    Really - when I have previously done this and its infamous guitar circles, back off the volume knob cleans the sound up with minimal volume drop. That is a desired outcome to get a different sound (used by so many people). Personally I'd dispute huge volume increase as in my experience its never been enough to differentiate for solos BUT it clearly works for you :)


    Why- if you have the ability to morph and select a different slot and other options for boosting, why choose a method that is variable (which is a negative for me), means taking your picking hand away ( so a delay) and more importantly has a fixed effect. With a separate slot you have ultimate control of a different amp, different gain and volume, different effects, different e.q. etc.


    If its preference/legacy, fair enough but I struggle to see any benefit for solo boosting ( which is different to getting a variety of sounds).


    I'm sure I'm missing something and not trying to say what your doing is wrong because we all use what works and no wrong answers, I just struggle with the logic.

  • I wouldn't become a diva unless they demanded to mic my monitor cab.8)

  • That's strange as one of the main reasons I chose the Kemper over any of the other great digital platforms was how well it responded to volume knob adjustments and picking dynamics. It was the only one that felt just like the real thing and behaved as I expected. I ride the volume all the time on the Kemper and couldn't be happier.

  • That's strange as one of the main reasons I chose the Kemper over any of the other great digital platforms was how well it responded to volume knob adjustments and picking dynamics. It was the only one that felt just like the real thing and behaved as I expected. I ride the volume all the time on the Kemper and couldn't be happier.

    100%. Last night I was recording with a fairly high gain profile. With compression set right, I could dial the volume down to a clean sound that you could do beach boys or jazz with. Pretty amazing. The tone was all there. Dialing down and switching to single coil or coil tapping is even better. I use my volume knob all the time now where I seldom did before. I had a friend over a while back and had the Kemper and guitar set up ready for him with a high gain profile on the neck pickup turned down to about 4 or so if I recall. I told him don't touch anything, just play it and tell me what he thought of this clean sound I had dialed in. He thought it was a killer, what was it a fender twin? vox? matchless? Then I told him to flick the pickup selector and he about fell off the chair realizing he'd been using that raging sound dialed down! If you want to impress someone with your Kemper that trick works great!

  • Agreed. I saw a show a few months back where the "engineer" was leaning back drinking a beer nodding his head like "all good" but the sound was atrocious. Kick drum was non existent and vocals were buried. You have to really understand and be able to diagnose low freq's to get good live sound. Ar bar level, many sound guys are the buddy that tags along and might as well be doing something worthwhile. Most aren't properly trained and the ones that are are working for a living and I can't afford.


    We played a gig last month for the bass player's birthday. We used my PA and lighting. One of things about the guys in the band is that they are super easy to please pros. Set the monitors and forget.

    The second band were great, a folky, party band with bass, banjo, washboard, drummer that just had a snare and a guitar.


    They were nice guys and knew beforehand that they were using my PA and that I'm not a professional sound engineer. Still, it was never good enough for them. They bemoaned the lack of DI box for their piezo outputs, wanted constant adjustments to the monitors and stressed about the FOH mix. Every time I stepped on stage, I noted that the monitor mixes were rather good. You could hear everything clearly, except the guitarists hollowbody piezo guitar that submitted to feedback at the slightest provocation. Further, I rarely got asked straight forward requests instead I got 'Can you fix my mic, it's loud enough but I'm really having to lean into it'. I queried if they wanted me to reduce the compression but they didn't understand the concept and so I never got to the bottom of the problem. They also complained about the mic I put on the snare being not high quality enough.


    All this whilst tiny children danced with elderly grannies, none of whom would notice if I turned the snare completely off, let alone used a better mic.


    They were paid and chose not to bring their own mics, DI boxes, preamps or monitoring solutions. The crowd loved them, they knew I was also there to enjoy the party and still they grumbled about things.


    Sadly, this experience is really common for me. I've been the emergency sound guy when no one else was around and had drummers demanding all sorts of EQing on their snare, more snare in the monitors, singers complaining about absolutely everything and so on.


    On the other hand, ive had immensely brilliant musicians make the smallest request and then say 'Good enough for me, cheers'.


    My personal rig is designed to take the soundman out of my monitoring so no matter what the PA setup, i tell the sound guy that I'm taking a split from the mic and that I need nothing else. The monitor can be turned off if they want.


    Aiming this at those ive personal experience with and not you, the entitlement of musicians never fails to annoy me. If your instrument needs a preamp or DI, bring one. If your monitoring needs are challenging, build a suitable rig to accommodate or bring your own monitor engineer.


    So whilst i agree there are some terrible sound engineers out there, there are more prima donna musicians that don't take responsibility for their experience.

  • With a powered kemper and a 4x12 stack, you should not have volume issues. You did not describe how much power your bandmate is delivering. What about his EQ settings? Mid scooped? Treble boosting? Do you have the same volume as him or is this just an EQ cutting issue? Are you getting sucked by your reverb or too much gain compression?


    A 2 guitar band where players harmonize and give a musical outcome is a lot of fun. Talk to your guitar mate, experiment together, for your solos dial in more high end than you would playing by yourself, use less lows/bass, less gain helps, too. If the other guitar díals the same EQ approach as you do during your solos, it makes no sense, reach an agreement about the guitar balance.


    Check this link for more EQ ideas.


    https://www.thegearpage.net/bo…ock-guitars-live.2009593/


    Another take to cut through live in a 2 guitars band, additionally to amp EQ settings (either valve or digital), volume, loud speakers and cabinets, is the type of guitars and pickups. Many 2 guitar bands try to use different guitars or pickup setups, or even different type of speakers/amps, in order to complement each other and don’t compete in the same frequency, giving each a different sound color.


    Many examples:
    AC/DC Gibson SG + Gretsch

    GNR Gibson LP + Gretsch or Tele

    Def Leppard, Whitesnake LP+Super Strat

    Steve Vai band SuperStrat+PRS

    Rolling Stones, Maiden, too. You name it. Just another alternative.


  • All this whilst tiny children danced with elderly grannies, none of whom would notice if I turned the snare completely off, let alone used a better mic.

    I get that. For me I take the FOH guy almost completely out of the picture as he should be. All of our monitors mixes are controlled over WIFI with everybody's device of choice. When it's like that, there is no reason to bother the sound guy with your mix problems and he can concentrate with FOH mix. I have different mixes saved for indoor& outdoor as well as different reoccurring gigs. I pretty much step in, turn on my tablet or phone push a button and done. Sometimes in the first set I might bump something here or there. Nobody complains because they'd be complaining at themselves. Kinda like how Mr. Kemper designed the KPA so that if it sounds bad, it's not the fault of the modeling, but the sound of your profile that you control.