The boys are back harmony

  • I'm a bit confused as I recall being told user scales are a part if the rig, not a preset of the pitch shifter. It's been a while...

    No the user scales are part of the Harmoniser settings so can be saved as a preset. However, you can't upload a preset on its own. The only way to upload a preset is to upload a rig containing it so it works either way.


    EDIT: just rechecked it. Although it does allow me to save the preset in Rig Manager it does appear that the user scale IS set per Rig and NOT per Harmoniser effect which is plain bonkers to my mind. I programmed a user scale for a harmoniser in Slot X. Then created a second Harmoniser in the Mod Slot and created a new User Scale for it. This totally wiped out the original User Scale in Slot X X(.



    EDIT Part 2 : Even worse! Although RM let me save the preset when I tried to load it, it DIDN'T contain the use scale information. I'm struggling to understand the logic in making it function this way.

  • No the user scales are part of the Harmoniser settings so can be saved as a preset. However, you can't upload a preset on its own. The only way to upload a preset is to upload a rig containing it

    When you get something you like, you are welcome to send me a Rig containing the Harmonizer setting, and I can upload it to Rig Manager with one of the Profiles from my Marshall. PM me for my email address.

  • it does appear that the user scale IS set per Rig and NOT per Harmoniser effect

    See, that's what I thought. And a couple years ago I went through the same process and wondering- why? I was having a tough time wrapping my head around the way user scales were saved there and where they were saved. Why wouldn't it (couldn't it/shouldn't it) simply be a harmonizer preset? That way you could have one for the key of A , E etc or things you might use for several instances..I know you understand the virtues. This is the part of the harmonizer as well as the manual where I felt sorry for people with less understanding because IMO this is the toughest and most confusing area to work with in the Kemper.

    Oh and I have to say thank you as you really put a lot of work into this thread, and although I understand it pretty well, you laid out some very crucial elements to the harmonizer function here. I find there are not a lot of people that work with the intelligent harmonies because it's over their heads,but it's really not that bad when you want to learn. The payoff is we don't have to hire another guitar player to play harmonies with and the Kemper tracks nicely.

  • This is likely a dumb question that I didn't think through, but what happens If you did play the note on (example) step 3,5,6? Will the harmony part just be silent? I had wondered that back when I was working more with this but never experimented.

  • I REALLY think there should be a thorough and detailed manual / addendum that explains the harmonizer & the way it saves, operates as well as explaining user scales etc.

    I'd bet between me and WTDug, we could do it. Maybe people are OK with the way it's been and it's just me, but I've worked with quite a few harmonizers and the one in the KPA took me longer to understand. (one of my very few gripes)

  • This is likely a dumb question that I didn't think through, but what happens If you did play the note on (example) step 3,5,6? Will the harmony part just be silent? I had wondered that back when I was working more with this but never experimented.

    I set mine to 0 so the harmony is either silent or unison. I didn’t listen closely enough to be sure but it’s easy enough to check by turning the mix control all the way up.

  • I set mine to 0 so the harmony is either silent or unison. I didn’t listen closely enough to be sure but it’s easy enough to check by turning the mix control all the way up.

    That's what I was wondering, if it went silent or just played the same note. Say you had it split in stereo, your guitar on the left and harmony on the right, would the right just go silent when playing those notes or play the same note?

  • That's what I was wondering, if it went silent or just played the same note. Say you had it split in stereo, your guitar on the left and harmony on the right, would the right just go silent when playing those notes or play the same note?

    OK, just tested it. It appears that steps set to 0 play in unison (i.e. they are not muted). This can be tested by setting mix to +/-50% and Stereo to 200%.


    At -50% mix you get the dry guitar in the right speaker only and nothing in the left. Set to +50% you get nothing in the right and the harmony guitar in the left. When you play up the chromatic scale you will hear a note on every step but the scale will drop down to the root note for every step set to 0.

  • Using an intelligent harmoniser requires an initial base knowledge in music theory e.g. knowing what key you are in and about intervals/scales. But then so does hamonising..


    Whilst that might seem simple to some, for others ( like me) who have very little theory, its not always easy/obvious.


    Add that to any complexity of set up and then it makes the KPA tool really hard to use in a practical sense.

  • OK, just tested it. It appears that steps set to 0 play in unison (i.e. they are not muted). This can be tested by setting mix to +/-50% and Stereo to 200%.


    At -50% mix you get the dry guitar in the right speaker only and nothing in the left. Set to +50% you get nothing in the right and the harmony guitar in the left. When you play up the chromatic scale you will hear a note on every step but the scale will drop down to the root note for every step set to 0.

    Thank you for testing that. Interesting!

  • Using an intelligent harmoniser requires an initial base knowledge in music theory e.g. knowing what key you are in and about intervals/scales. But then so does hamonising..


    Whilst that might seem simple to some, for others ( like me) who have very little theory, its not always easy/obvious.


    Add that to any complexity of set up and then it makes the KPA tool really hard to use in a practical sense.

    After playing guitar, violin, saxophone and singing lead and harmony for 20 years, I took a theory course. It's really not that hard to understand. I'm pretty sure if you had an interest, I could explain it to you and have you figuring harmonies in 15 min. It's really not that tough. You just need to know the scale and how to count. Now that I understand what user scales set to 0 do, I think I have the harmonizer pretty well understood. It's a great tool if you like double leads and are a single guitar player.

  • After playing guitar, violin, saxophone and singing lead and harmony for 20 years, I took a theory course. It's really not that hard to understand. I'm pretty sure if you had an interest, I could explain it to you and have you figuring harmonies in 15 min. It's really not that tough. You just need to know the scale and how to count. Now that I understand what user scales set to 0 do, I think I have the harmonizer pretty well understood. It's a great tool if you like double leads and are a single guitar player.

    Yeah I think you are right.


    I have had a few attempts at it and I think I actually do get the principles, its the learning/committing the scales to memory it that I've not taken the time to do. For example I know that C major scale is no flats or sharps, so dead easy to remember and I can reverse engineer the intervals from that.


    In the same way I know I should learn the fretboard, its sheer laziness/priorities if I'm honest and I think to get maximum benefit, you need to be able to translate it to the fret board.. I'm not one of these people who thinks that somehow learning more theory will ruin my playing but I'm also not someone who enjoys that part - it makes it hard work.

  • Yeah I think you are right.


    I have had a few attempts at it and I think I actually do get the principles, its the learning/committing the scales to memory it that I've not taken the time to do. For example I know that C major scale is no flats or sharps, so dead easy to remember and I can reverse engineer the intervals from that.


    In the same way I know I should learn the fretboard, its sheer laziness/priorities if I'm honest and I think to get maximum benefit, you need to be able to translate it to the fret board.. I'm not one of these people who thinks that somehow learning more theory will ruin my playing but I'm also not someone who enjoys that part - it makes it hard work.

    I've never learned the fretboard in the sense that I could tell you any note fingered. I never memorized the scales although there are some simple ways of doing that. I'm lazy too and just memorize what I need to get the job done. If I was figuring harmonies on the kemper, I'd start by figuring out the scale looking at a scale chart then trying it out and checking if it sounded correct. After a few major/minor tries I usually get it. If it is all good but a couple notes or if it doesn't follow the scale completely, I'd go for a user scale. Usually you don't have to.

  • ...In the same way I know I should learn the fretboard, its sheer laziness/priorities if I'm honest and I think to get maximum benefit, you need to be able to translate it to the fret board.. I'm not one of these people who thinks that somehow learning more theory will ruin my playing but I'm also not someone who enjoys that part - it makes it hard work.

    Nothing to do with the harmonizer, but it is interesting how differently we guitarists approach our craft. I can't imagine playing the instrument daily and not knowing where all the notes are! And, in my view, more theory expands creativity and improvisational skills in a significant way. I believe these are mandatory skills that will ultimately make every guitarist a more efficient learner and a better musician overall.

  • Nothing to do with the harmonizer, but it is interesting how differently we guitarists approach our craft. I can't imagine playing the instrument daily and not knowing where all the notes are! And, in my view, more theory expands creativity and improvisational skills in a significant way. I believe these are mandatory skills that will ultimately make every guitarist a more efficient learner and a better musician overall.

    I definitely wouldn't say mandatory. I agree there are lots of benefits but I could name scores of very famous guitarists with less knowledge of the fret board than I that would bury me in a guitar contest. Same goes for sight reading, it's only important if you want to play what someone else has written, it's not a requirement to be able to create music. Music theory is not rules but observations that came after music was created.