rig manager replaces profiles


  • This is incorrect. Sometimes, hiting "store in local library" overwrite the existing rig, as i demonstrated here : Prevent accidental overwriting of rig

  • Since this unfortunate event, my workflow is now to do my settings in RM, then i hit "store as" on the profiler (where the feature actually exists) and then copy and paste the rig on my hard drive in RM. Not ideal.

  • Our Rig Manager team is currently not aware of such a bug.


    Please open a support ticket here and include information how to reproduce the issue and which versions you use.

    A video would be ideal and a log-file.

  • I don't understand your suggestion and what you think is missing.

    Really not trying to argue or rant. I'm trying to offer suggestions on how you might improve things for many of your customers and trying to stay relevant to this thread.


    Here's a real-life scenario -

    I find a Rig that I like in the Rig Exchange. Let's say for this example I'd like to create copies for several different guitars and that I have Local Library folders for each guitar, each slightly modified to better match up with the guitar.


    Using a "Save As" as I had described it, I would open the original Rig Exchange Rig, and decide it works for a Les Paul. I could then just click Save As, and from a popup select Local Library/Les Paul as a location, then save the rig as "Nice RE Deluxe". I have no need to be transported to the new copy that I stored in a different folder. I just continue editing the same original rig that should still be in the edit buffer, but now making changes for a Tele. When done I click "Save As" and from a popup I select Local Library/Tele as a location, then save the rig as "Re Deluxe for Tele". I'm lucky enough to have several guitars, so I continue this process for another 3 guitars.


    And if I were trying to build a Performance in the same way, I would just have chosen "Performance XYZ/slot 3" or similar as a location, again naming it however I'd like.


    So all I've had to do is find a rig, edit it in several ways, and elected to save it in multiple locations that I want, named as I want them. The interface is not sending me to other folders as I save changes and there is no confusion on what I've done. For instance, maybe I've made a new Performance called "RE Deluxe" with a slot for each guitar - LP, Tele, Strat, PRS, P90. Sounds pretty easy, no?


    You also described using Word for comparison. This is exactly what someone would likely do. Just keeping the original document open, changing guitar names throughout the text, then using the normal Windows Save As to save a new document wherever they'd like under whatever doc name they'd like.


    The same thing in the Kemper logic (and yes I know there could be several ways to get to the same end)

    Open the rig from Rig Exchange

    Save it to Local Library (not where I want it and still under the original rig name)

    Now am I still on the RE rig, or my new Local Library copy? Not something here that everyone could easily know without checking.

    Should I make a duplicate so as to hopefully not overwrite the new Local Library copy? So to be safe, I'll do this.

    I forgot to rename the first one, so now I have "RE Deluxe" and "RE Deluxe copy", not where I want them and not named as I want them.

    But since I'm now hopefully editing "RE Deluxe copy" I continue on making my mods for a Tele.

    I hit Store and hope for the best.

    This time I remember and rename "RE Deluxe" to "RE Deluxe LP". Do I need to store it? Don't really know for sure so I do it anyway.

    I forgot to rename "RE Deluxe copy" so now I'm editing that for my PRS. Luckily, I remember not to just Store it, overwriting my Tele copy. So I duplicate it. Will it now be "RE Deluxe copy copy"? Will it be "RE Deluxe copy(2)"?

    Once I figure all of this out, I finally have my 5 copies saved and named.

    Now I have to go back and copy them to the set of folders I had created to keep things organized under Local Library.

    Now I want a Performance, so I again need to copy/paste each to a slot in a performance. Do I need to Store again? It was a lot of work so I better. And I've been bitten once or twice when trying to change performance rigs so maybe I should just hit the Store button on the physical profiler just to be sure.


    ---------------------------------

    Clearly there are several ways I could copy/paste/drag/rename and so on to get to that same end goal. But it's clear that this is the type of confusion that is often described by others as they try to do similar things.


    And with Save As existing in pretty all other programs that save edits, that's a skill that pretty much everyone already understands. And even though the Kemper has work arounds, they cause confusion (obvious by the many threads on this), require more steps (more things to possibly go wrong), and requiring that the Kemper user know precisely the steps and the order to do those steps in.


    I hope you pay attention to this. Obviously, it's your program to build as you please, and we can get by one way or the other. But there is a reason that some functionality, like copy/paste/open/save/save as are considered standards in most software and generally works the same everywhere.

  • I think, what you try to achieve is all possible with functions like Duplicate or if you start loading a Rig from a location where you cannot duplicate, because it's not your domain like Rig Exchange or Rig Packs, with functions like Store Rig in Local Library or Store Rig in Profiler. Yes, renaming and moving might be seperate tasks. However, our functions are touch screen compatible. Try Duplicate on a MAC PC. It creates a copy of the object in the same location with name extention "copy". Same here in Rig Manager.

  • I think, what you try to achieve is all possible with functions like Duplicate or if you start loading a Rig from a location where you cannot duplicate, because it's not your domain like Rig Exchange or Rig Packs, with functions like Store Rig in Local Library or Store Rig in Profiler. Yes, renaming and moving might be seperate tasks. However, our functions are touch screen compatible. Try Duplicate on a MAC PC. It creates a copy of the object in the same location with name extention "copy". Same here in Rig Manager.

    Hello Burkhard.

    This is exactly why I so carefully worded my description in post#16 above. Nothing about adding a "Save as" functionality would impact the existing saves in any way. If things like using a touch screen with no naming would be important, then it wouldn't be affected anyway. And yes, obviously all could be done with existing functionality, but with the awkward steps that I described in my later post that seem to be at the root of strings like this one.


    The only new functionality the Save As we discuss should require is a new button, and a dialog box prompting for a location and name. Nothing overly complicated and most likely no change to existing tested code. But as a few of us have described and requested, it would make our lives that little bit easier. This isn't meant to be a debate. It's just an explanation as to how a relatively simple addition could improve your editor for some of us that we'd hope your company would take seriously and consider adding to the system.

  • I’m on a profile on a local folder, the rig is name « amp blabla whatever » > save to profiler


    when I go the profiler section in rm I have a duplicate that didn’t exist before.

    Can’t see what I’m doing wrong.

  • When you say "on the profile", are you sure it's the one currently selected in the editor? Has the headphone icon to the left?


    Remember that you can highlight other rigs while they're not actually the one selected for editing. If it wasn't, then the Store to Profiler would have stored whichever one was currently loaded for edit.


    Also, if you see a duplicate in My Profiler, try shutting down and restarting Rig Manager. Is it still showing the duplicate after the restart?

  • I’m on a profile on a local folder, the rig is name « amp blabla whatever » > save to profiler


    when I go the profiler section in rm I have a duplicate that didn’t exist before.

    Can’t see what I’m doing wrong.

    What you describe could be normal. If you load a Rig "amp blabla whatever" from a folder of the local library (marked with headphones icon), and then select "Save to Profiler", it adds the Rig "amp blabla whatever" to the PROFILER pool, without touching the original in the local folder. So you have one Rig "amp blabla whatever" in the Local Folder and another Rig "amp blabla whatever" in the PROFILER. That is intended. Save doesn't move the original Rig, but creates another Rig. Is this the "duplication" you are referring to?


    If these Rigs are completely identical, depends on if you hade edited the Rig since loading it and before you saved it. You could have loaded it, increased Gain and then triggered Save to Profiler. Then the version of the Rig in the PROFILER has more Gain than the original in the folder of the local library.

  • I also have a weird problem with replacing rigs in performance. If I start my Kemper Stage and select for example rig 4 in Performance 7 and then open RM, in all rig 4 performances appear rig 4 from performance 7. If I close RM, every rig 4 of the performances is oké again.

    That's very confusing.

  • Im struggling to follow this thread as its a combination of bugs and improvements/wprkflow.


    I have a generic comment ( which is not helpful I'll admit) that applies here.


    RM is close to being a fantastic tool. There are 2 things that cause the problems:

    1) There are still a number of bugs, I think mainly around saving/syncing between laptops and the profiler

    2) copying isn't always an obvious process


    Its often difficult to determine when something is a bug or the way it functions. The main issues are the sync between the profiler and RM.


    I rarely use RM because my profiler is set and ready to go. But last week I wanted create a new performance ( another band were potentially going to use it so I wanted a generic performance for them).


    So I copied one of my performances - worked fine.

    I then wanted to change some of the rigs. Selected one, copied into a slot, showed it was syncing but then it didn't change. Tried again, same thing. Tried a 3rd time and it worked.

    I had the same issue then renaming ( which is SOOOO much easier on RM) but the change wouldn't follow through onto the profiler first time. It even said it was syncing. Pressed save on the profiler, still didn't work. I had to disconnect and try again, then it worked.


    Now I'm sure some of that is user error but definitely get intermittent issues. I didn't report it ( yes I know I should) purely because I don't have time to repeat the task and make sure I can detail the flow I followed.


    As I work in software I understand that anecdotal comments don't help, but it would be good to know from Kemper's perspective if syncing is a known problem/vulnerability and they continue to review or they believe there are no main issues.

  • Problem is identified and confirmed from Kemper team, it will be corrected in the next version


    8.7.6.38112 Public Beta Possible Bug detected

    I don't think the issue we found is the "Rig Manager replaces profiles" issues raised here. That 8.7.6 issue happens in the PROFILER. You can't even see it in Rig Manager. Rig Manager shows the correct Rig instead and also stores the correct Rig. Only the PROFILER maintains the former Rig and also overwrites with this Rig, when the front panel STORE button is being used. We don't even know, if C0unterAc3 is already using OS 8.7.6.


    I suggest you exactly describe the issue you are referring to so that it can be reproduced. And then we can evaluate, if this is a simple misunderstanding and if this is caused by suboptimal design or a bug.

  • I don't think the issue we found is the "Rig Manager replaces profiles" issues raised here. That 8.7.6 issue happens in the PROFILER. You can't even see it in Rig Manager. Rig Manager shows the correct Rig instead and also stores the correct Rig. Only the PROFILER maintains the former Rig and also overwrites with this Rig, when the front panel STORE button is being used. We don't even know, if C0unterAc3 is already using OS 8.7.6.


    I suggest you exactly describe the issue you are referring to so that it can be reproduced. And then we can evaluate, if this is a simple misunderstanding and if this is caused by suboptimal design or a bug.

    I was referring to the post directly above my one:


    I also have a weird problem with replacing rigs in performance. If I start my Kemper Stage and select for example rig 4 in Performance 7 and then open RM, in all rig 4 performances appear rig 4 from performance 7. If I close RM, every rig 4 of the performances is oké again.

    That's very confusing.

    If something is too complicated, then you need to learn it better

  • What you describe could be normal. If you load a Rig "amp blabla whatever" from a folder of the local library (marked with headphones icon), and then select "Save to Profiler", it adds the Rig "amp blabla whatever" to the PROFILER pool, without touching the original in the local folder. So you have one Rig "amp blabla whatever" in the Local Folder and another Rig "amp blabla whatever" in the PROFILER. That is intended. Save doesn't move the original Rig, but creates another Rig. Is this the "duplication" you are referring to?


    If these Rigs are completely identical, depends on if you hade edited the Rig since loading it and before you saved it. You could have loaded it, increased Gain and then triggered Save to Profiler. Then the version of the Rig in the PROFILER has more Gain than the original in the folder of the local library.

    no, I’m referring to a random rig that is duplicated in the profiler when I save a rig from a folder to the profiler with RM.


    Different names, different profiles.


    It happens randomly.

  • no, I’m referring to a random rig that is duplicated in the profiler when I save a rig from a folder to the profiler with RM.

    Contact support please. We will try to replicate your findings.


    In any case we've reached a post in this discussion where pretty much everybody takes about different things. What the OP described has nothing to do with what some of your discuss here or report. Therefore, I'm closing this thread now. If you want to continue to discuss "your" issue, please open a new thread.

    Get in touch with Profiler online support team here