Kemper Stage with Bogner 20th Anniversary Shiva?!

  • Hey guys,


    I like having options so I have my Bogner Shiva 20th Anniversary head with pedals for some gigs but I'm thinking of getting a modeler like the Fractal or Helix but leaning toward the Kemper Stage as I hear the amps are the best.

    As long as the effects are good, I'll be pretty happy.


    My Bogner amp has a Power amp Input and the amp uses KT88 tubes.

    I want to turn of can Sims and use it like a real amp with effects and rely on my own cab for the cabinet and speaker tones. I'm fine with this. I want the in the room feel and thump of my cabs. Plus I am only doing classic rock to metal. Not a massive variety here.


    Any thoughts on if this would work well with the Bogner? Again it has a dedicated power amp input for feeding preamp pedals and modelers.


    Looks like I'll grab the Kemper Stage unit.


    Thanks!


    Rich

    Edited once, last by Boardn14 ().

  • It will work but for me it’s not worth the effort. If you are using a valve power amp you will colour the tones so won’t get the full benefit of an authentic profile. This might sound fantastic but it won’t be a true replica of the original amp. In this situation “its amps are best” effectively becomes meaningless.


    Next, the speaker and cabinet are at least half the sound. If you are going to simply use the same speaker for everything you will miss much of the variety available from something like the Kemper.


    As you are only doing “classic rock to metal.Not a massive variety here” I would just find another great amp that you like for variety.


    If it was me I would just use the Shiva and get a great FX unit. If money is no option then AxeFX III is the king of the FX units. If money is a factor then the Helix HX might be a better choice.


    If you want to go the Kemper route with a traditional cabinet I would go for the Powered Head or Rack.

  • Thanks.


    In thr past I never like how profilers and modelers sound they full range systems. Never have the warmth I want and feel under fingers but I haven't tried Kemper yet. It's a big investment to only find out I may not like it. Maybe I'd love it.


    I saw several bands live use the Kemper. I watched a local tribute band called Van Halen Nation and he sounded awesome. He uses the powered profiler head into real Marshall cabs. Sounds great!


    I may end up gong the multi effects route as you say and maybe the four cable method so I could use the amp models too.


    In the end if the person likes it, who cares if it's full range or using my cabs. I used modeling years ago and had a blast. I turned off all cab Sima and used my cans. Still got tones of variety. With a fairly neutral cab, I don't need a full range system in my opinion.


    I'd still love to have the amp model options.


    I did look at the little Fractal FM3 as well.


    Right, for music, we do originals with covers ranging from Rush to The Police to The Cars to Duran Duran to Nirvana to Alice in Chains, STP, etc.

  • I was a Bogner Shiva user for years and yes you can use it as you describe. It sounds great that way. But... I wouldn't bother, personally. The Shiva is a heavy animal and in order to get the power amp tubes cooking you would have to get the volume right up. I highly prefer just a great Shiva profile.

  • I was a Bogner Shiva user for years and yes you can use it as you describe. It sounds great that way. But... I wouldn't bother, personally. The Shiva is a heavy animal and in order to get the power amp tubes cooking you would have to get the volume right up. I highly prefer just a great Shiva profile.

    Similar with me. I had (still have in a cupboard) a Mesa Triaxis and matching 2:ninety stereo poweramp. I could easily use the 2:ninety with the KPA but to my mind it just isn’t worth the effort. That thing is a beast and weighs about 3.5 tons 😆 Like all valve power amps it sounds best when run at a volume which is way too loud for most things so I would take a profile of this rig over my real rig every day of the week.

  • Similar with me. I had (still have in a cupboard) a Mesa Triaxis and matching 2:ninety stereo poweramp. I could easily use the 2:ninety with the KPA but to my mind it just isn’t worth the effort. That thing is a beast and weighs about 3.5 tons 😆 Like all valve power amps it sounds best when run at a volume which is way too loud for most things so I would take a profile of this rig over my real rig every day of the week.

    Do you want to sell your tri/290 rig?

    The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.

  • Hi guys,


    Thanks for the input and talk on this topic. I decided to go Stage with tube power amp. I had a chance to try a friend's Fractal and Kemper. I do like that with Fractal I get an amp model that I can tweak like the or the final amp, and it has good feel. With the Kemper and profiles, I have snap shots of amp settings which is different and sometimes harder for me to wrap my head around because I often want to tweak but many profiles are not meant to be tweaked.

    Anyway, I find the Kemper sounds more like the real amp than the Fractal Audio units, but the Fractal has better feel. It feels more like I'm playing a tube amp.

    Combining the Kemper Stage and tube power amp is the best of both worlds to me, and I'm happy going this route. The tube power amp adds the elusive feel that I found missing.

    Love it either way.

  • I was a Bogner Shiva user for years and yes you can use it as you describe. It sounds great that way. But... I wouldn't bother, personally. The Shiva is a heavy animal and in order to get the power amp tubes cooking you would have to get the volume right up. I highly prefer just a great Shiva profile.

    I hear what you guys are saying!

    But, it is often said that Kemper, while very accurate in sound, lacks the feel of a tube amp. Apparently, something like a Fractal Audio unit feels more realistic. I'm trying to add that feel back, using a tube power amp.

  • I hear what you guys are saying!

    But, it is often said that Kemper, while very accurate in sound, lacks the feel of a tube amp. Apparently, something like a Fractal Audio unit feels more realistic. I'm trying to add that feel back, using a tube power amp.

    I have never found the Kemper to be lacking in real tube amp feel. I played Mesa’s for 30+ Years before going Kemper and the reason I chose Kemper over any of the other great alternatives was because it felt most like the real deal and responded best to the guita”s volume knob for cleaning up the sound.

  • The reason I sold my Shiva was that even with my critical ears I couldn't tell the difference between the original amp and a profile of the amp with my power head into the Shiva speakers. There was none.


    It's always about how you're listening to the Kemper and what your expectations are. My primary expectation is to sound like a guitar track on a record and not dominate the whole stage. I rarely need the old amp in the room config, but when I do it's the Kab or a 2x12 with V30's, which sound like an amp at amp volumes.

  • IMHO the KPA is a different head space to traditional amps and takes a while to get used to. Unlike others, I offloaded my amps and now just gig with the unpowered head and have done for many years. I bought a Yamaha DXR 10 which was de rigeur four years ago but I would have plumped for a power Kab if it had been available. The effects are some of the best I’ve ever heard and the amps are spectacular in sound and feel, feel being one of the many reasons I chose it so I disagree with the often said remark. For my money you’re better getting the KPA and Kab and ditching everything else, but this might be a step too far. Good luck with your journey anyway

    A brace of Suhrs, a Charvel, a toaster, an Apollo twin, a Mac, and a DXR10

  • IMHO the KPA is a different head space to traditional amps and takes a while to get used to.

    ^ This in spades.


    If the idea of music is to create unique sounds and share emotion with them, and it is, the KPA is a rather unique approach towards doing that.


    If you’re looking for a box to copy what’s already there down to the knob behavior, you’ll be disappointed. This isn’t meant to be the amp-version of a Custom Shop recreation.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Who often says? I’ve literally never heard that.

    I hear ya! I like the Kemper, so I am with you. I just find it odd that I hear it said about Fractal and Kemper... While both being great, Fractal for feel and Kemper for sound.


    I see and hear that a lot. This is an example, the guy mentions this at the end of the review and specifically a little after 12:00.


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  • Meh. There are *so* many YouTube channels with people saying all manner of things.


    When a player like Mark Knopfler uses a Kemper on tour, Rob Chapel couldn’t tell the difference between his own amp and the KPA (with both in the next room) and the JHS Show goes a year without anyone noticing every sound was a Kemper?


    I’ll take that over a YT channel making a blanket statement while competing for eyeballs.


    They are different. That’s all.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I have never found the Kemper to be lacking in real tube amp feel. I played Mesa’s for 30+ Years before going Kemper and the reason I chose Kemper over any of the other great alternatives was because it felt most like the real deal and responded best to the guita”s volume knob for cleaning up the sound.

    Thanks man! Which Mesa amps did you play? I had a Mark V, an older Dual Rec, a Multi Watt Rec and now BFG modified Dual Rec.


    I do hope the Kemper wolves my desire to want two many different amps. I am excited and am tired of buying tube amps and spending so much money.


    Currently I have a 20th Anniversary Bogner Shiva, the modified Mesa Dual Rec and PRS Archon 100.


    Which Kemper configuration do you play? Powered head or Kemper Rack or Kemper Stage unit into a power amp?

    Edited once, last by Boardn14: Adding question ().