Kemper Stage with Bogner 20th Anniversary Shiva?!

Quote from Boardn14

many profiles are not meant to be tweaked

Maybe bad ones. I've tweaked full on Dumbles to an awesome clean sound and a Clean Fuchs into a killer distorted rig.

Quote from Boardn14

I hear what you guys are saying!

But, it is often said that Kemper, while very accurate in sound, lacks the feel of a tube amp. Apparently, something like a Fractal Audio unit feels more realistic. I'm trying to add that feel back, using a tube power amp.

It's rumors from people that want to justify tubes. I'd take your favorite tube amp that you are very used to and profile it. Without knowing which is which you won't be able to tell the difference, Top studio masters and engineers can't with their Genelec monitors and million dollar studios so I challenge that you couldn't either. Unless you can hear the difference between a Duracell and Energizer in your tube screamer.

Quote from Finally

The reason I sold my Shiva was that even with my critical ears I couldn't tell the difference between the original amp and a profile of the amp with my power head into the Shiva speakers. There was none.

It's always about how you're listening to the Kemper and what your expectations are. My primary expectation is to sound like a guitar track on a record and not dominate the whole stage.

Besides my vintage stuff I held onto, my last two amps to go were my ENGL 656 and EVH 5153. Once I realized they had nothing over the recorded or live sound of the KPA and less versatile, out they went. I was always a tube snob and want to like tubes better but it's just not reality. The KPA is so much more consistent. With my tube amps there were days I disliked them and days I loved them, but with a Kemper it's always there. my playing and ears may vary though.

Quote from Boardn14

Thanks guys.

Rather than get another tube head like the Revv Generator which was high on my list, I will give the Stage a good go. Hopefully it takes care of my amp gas.

Looking forward to having a variety of amps in tone and feel at my fingertips.

In my experience the worst part about owning a Kemper was all the choices and sorting through them and that it took away all my GAS. I look at cool amps every now and then and think "I'd like to have one of those" then recall "I already have an amp I can make sound like that, complete with effects and a miked cab ready to roll." I kinda liked having GAS, it gave me a reason to shop and something to wish for. Now when I'm out of town top priority isn't visiting the local music store to hunt some old brown deluxe or vox, why bother? I have all of the amps in the store already.

Quote from Boardn14

So you use the Stage?

I have the Stage on the way and did play one.

I have tube power amps and guitar cabs.

I can't afford to replace all my amps and cabs as I've invested a lot. Maybe one day.

Curious if any specific tube amps for best if you all found that!?

My current situation is tube amp and cab, so I'll work with it for now.

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I have a Powered Head not Stage.

If you can't afford to use a full range speaker and already have a valve amp and guitar cab use them. For me there was no benefit in sound or feel from dragging out my Mesa power amp and cabinets compared to just using the Powered Kemper with a Kabinet so I packed my heavy valve gear in the cupboard and travel light with just a Powered Head and 1x12 Kemper Kabinet.

If you want to use a tube power amp to colour the sound I think the only way is to audition them with the Kemper profile you use most and listen through your cabinet. The reason being that you've got the original amp's power amp already in the Kemper rig, so applying another tube amp will have unpredictable results.

All three formats (Head/Rack/Stage) sound exactly the same. Both the Rack and Head com with the option of a power amp version but the stage doesn't. However, you don't necessarily "need" the built in amp. Most full range speakers these days have their own built in amp. The Kemper Kabinet comes in both passive (suitable for power head) and powered (suitable for Stage and unpowered Head or Rack).

For me personally, I would always prefer either a Rack or Head for convenience. For gig use the Rack would be my preferred option even though I love the design of the original toaster. I don't like all in one pedalboards but plenty of people do so it is purely personal taste which option you prefer.

The stage actually does have a couple of advantages over the other two though; built in wifi, no need to purchase a separate foot controller, two FX loops instead of one on the other formats. Non of these are deal breakers for me so I am still happy to stick with my powered head and Remote but if FX loop or wifi are important to you then you would be better to keep the Stage and add a powered speaker.

The Kabinet is a small speaker and is super light. Does it sound like a 4x12? No. For me this is a huge advantage as I hate 412 cabinets on stage as they are extremely directional and throw way too much sound into the audience. They typically sound louder around the first few rows of the audience than they do on stage which makes life really difficult for the FOH sound guys unless you are playing pretty large venues (in which case you have good enough monitoring systems to not need too much stage volume anyway. Basically 412 cabs were designed for a period in time (pre decent FOH PA systems) which no longer exists. I am glad to see the back of mine.

The powered head is a great format for me. If I was a touring player I'd use a power rack, since power head is a bit awkward to move around. Where can you still show up with a 4x12 cab these days?

I recommend a power conditioner no matter what you decide.

Quote from Boardn14

Problem is that most full range speakers are only 112 or 212, I only use 412 cabs.

A big reason why I'd still use my cabs that I just spend a ton for.

Problem with rack is ide need a power amp, power conditioner and rack case. More garbage to buy.

Either way I'll be giving my Bogner 412 and tube power amp.

Also still looking at the Kemper FM9 as another one to grab eventually.

I hate how small 112 and 212 cabs sound.

I've tried so many small cabs and always come back to my slant 412.

None of the places we have played run guitars thru the PA, only vocals.

Whatever I produce on stage is it.

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A few things here:

1) 4 x12s are VERY directional....As a previous 4x12 player, I would put my Kabinet 1x12 ( and regularly do) against any 4x12. It is as big, wide and powerful, if not more IMO. Even if

2) "Also still looking at the Kemper FM9 as another one to grab eventually". What is the Kemper FM9? I think you mean the Fractal FM9...

3) No one says you have to buy a power conditioner. I believe there is a bigger argument for a power conditioner for tube amps...

4) I would strongly recommend running your guitars through the PA. I don't know ANY venues in the UK regardless of how small that only run a vocal PA. Sometimes you have to push and request it...I know many bands do this with their own PA, but not venues with a PA or with sound engineer ...Regardless....trying to play off the backline will result in inconsistent sound. You will rip the face off anyone directly in front of you ( they will not hear much else) and anyone either of centre or more than 3 people back will hardly hear you - they will only hear bass and kick drum and loud vocals.. I cannot emphasize enough that playing off your backline, regardless of the size of venue, should be avoided IMO. This is not a guitar issue but a band issue. For example, I also insist to miking at least the snare and kick on the drums as well...

Quote from Boardn14

If I end up going with a full range speaker cab one day, I'd want the powered head since it is 600 watts. For solid state or digital, you want a lot of wattage and power. Otherwise I'd run the Stage thru my own power amp and passive can.

Most full range speakers on the market are powered but tend to come with unto 1000w so don't worry about needing a 600w power amp for full range. The real advantage of the power head is that you can plug straight into a regular guitar cab if needed. As others have pointed out, I always try and avoid this and very rarely play anywhere that doesn't put the guitar through the FOH PA. It gives much more control and generally better overall mix than running off back line (especially if running a 412 on stage - those beasts are the work of the devil and should be outlawed ).