Moving to silent stage?

  • Hi all,


    Long time listener, first time caller . I am at a crossroads in my Kemper life, and don't know who else to turn to.

    I recently somehow blew the speaker that I have been using for the past 4 years to assist in monitoring my Kemper power rack (Celestion Creamback 65W)


    I played the gig after I found I had blown the speaker using only IEMs. It was fine, different feeling completely, but fine.


    Overall I barely use any on stage volume, really just there for a little feeling and insurance in case my ears aren't particularly good one night.


    Anybody out there switch from using a cab to completely direct only through IEMs? Would love to hear your thoughts!

  • I’ve played at church for 8+ years with in-ears only and play in a Rock band using a Kabinet to monitor while wearing quality filtered ear plugs.


    I have no issues going back and forth.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I switched from studio monitors to studio headphones and have a difficult time going back to that "distant" sound. ;) You will be fine.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • I switch from cab to personal stage monitor 4 years ago when I bought my kemper. It's was already a big improvement.


    I use In ears for 2 years on stage and it's heaven. I use headphone at home and it's very comfortable.


    I took my amp few times on rehearsal just to remind me all the disadvantages. Once your are accustomed to phones or IEM, you can't go back. I don't like the sound coming direct from a cab anymore, too loud, aggressive...

  • Yes i only bring a cab for backup, or if the rest of the band aren’t fully inear, and needs a bit of onstage sound. I don’t really like having a loud cab behind me.

    And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

  • In in 2 bands - one has moved to silent stage and one is conventional. For me its not been such an easy transition for the one band that has transitioned but the benefits are massive.


    Some key pointers from me:

    1) Its never going to feel or sound the same - I personally still prefer to hear my Kabinet kicking it out but the benefit of hearing everyone else and hearing protection is

    2) Even with ambient mikes it can feel like you are isolated from the audience

    3) Good quality ear buds are essential for good sound, which are expensive. I've recently splurged on £700 Ultimate ears!!!

    4) You have a sound check not just the band but your in ears. We have separate mixes for each band member that we can control ourselves so it minimizes this problem as we can tweak as we go


    Definitely persevere though, its the right way to go!!!!

  • Anybody out there switch from using a cab to completely direct only through IEMs? Would love to hear your thoughts!


    As already mentioned, don't go cheap on the earbuds. Go with a brand with a good service so things can be repaired, fixed or adapted as ears change over the years. It sounds stupid to pay about 1k and above for good quality headphones but they are worth it. For me just personally all these generic one size fits all things from the known brands are okay but not a little bit fun to play guitar with. Everything which is meant to work with vocals and features the range of the voice to cut through a loud band on stage with generic inears makes your sound fizzy and thin. It has to be fun to listen to music with them. Just my opinion on that. :)

    And it makes a huge difference if you have a well thought setup with a dedicated InEar mixer. No one else than you knows how you want your live mix. We have a complete plug&play setup. Stereo inear for all people and normally we don't need to change anything from rehearsal to the stage, the last 1-2% are okay to live with if the front sound effects the inear sound. It takes about 5-10 minutes to built the whole stage and we are ready to go from that moment.

  • Thanks all for the input! Fortunately I am in a great position to move this. Have some decent Ultimate Ears (Would like to upgrade) and a dedicated in ear rig with our own mixer, gonna try this approach for a few gigs before bringing my cab back, if I do at all. Maybe this is my opportunity to finally move to just a Kemper stage.....Possibilities!

  • I have been using IEM's since the late 90's (as you can see in my picture :) ). I have been gigging in bands since the early 80's.


    Bands with low stage volume have a fundamental advantage over bands with loud stages. All that noise causes several problems:


    1) All the open mics pickup the noise from the stage and reamplify it through the FOH resulting in a mushy mix out front

    2) If the volume of the stage at the vocal mic is louder than the vocalist, it becomes impossible to get the vocals above the mix

    3) Guitar amps are directional in the extreme. Part of the audience will be blasted by guitar while part will barely be able to hear the guitar.

    4) None of the band members can hear each other well. Turning the floor wedges up just makes the problem worse (or causes feedback)


    I play guitar like all of you so of COURSE I like to hear my rig dimed. The strings come alive and feeling a palm mute thump your chest is amazing...... but it isn't a good way to play in a band. In fact, it is a sure way to kill the sound of the band out front.


    I believe that lead guitar players (I play rhythm and only a few leads since I am also the lead singer) do need a live monitor on stage, but one pointed at them, not at the audience. This is to get the string action for a good lead. I still think that even the lead player should use IEM's as it is by far the best way to hear the rest of the band.


    I don't care how good you are, if you can't hear the rest of the band, you won't be able to sound as good as you could hearing them.


    No, IEM's DON'T sound like an amp in the room. In many respects they sound better, but for pure guitar tone, they just don't IMO. That's OK. I actually like hearing a good mix in my IEM's.


    As an aside, you are much more likely to be able to hear what the audience hears with IEM's than you are with floor wedges IME.

  • Nice post! All points valid! :thumbup:

  • Nice post! All points valid! :thumbup:

    Thanks!


    I think many of us have lived through this problem.


    I remember auditioning for a new lead player years back. One guy came over with 2 JCM900's with 2 4x12 marshal slant top cabs because he needed a stereo image on stage for himself.


    Sent him home before we even got through the first song. It was an ear splitting experience.


    Ironically, he felt we had no clue how a rock band was supposed to sound ;)

  • I think this is how things are changing...I have mentioned before that a support band turned up and the guitarist had a marshall with 2 4x12's and some other slave combo, all on full chat...the sound engineer was freaking out because the backline was out of control and fully bleeding into the FOH sound. He told him to turn down multiple times but he resisted because it was the only way he could get "his sound"...

  • As already mentioned, don't go cheap on the earbuds.

    I would not suggest people buying el-cheapo IEMs, but as a first step a set of Shure SE215s are impossible to beat for all around value.


    No - they do not compete with good, multi-driver brands - but they’re also WAY less expensive at $120 or so.


    I’ve got a pair I’ve used at church since 2015 or so. Are they great? Well….they aren’t bad and they’re as durable as can be.


    I replaced the cable once….in 7 years, being used a 4-6 times per month depending.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I think this is how things are changing...I have mentioned before that a support band turned up and the guitarist had a marshall with 2 4x12's and some other slave combo, all on full chat...the sound engineer was freaking out because the backline was out of control and fully bleeding into the FOH sound. He told him to turn down multiple times but he resisted because it was the only way he could get "his sound"...

    Went through the same recently. Band after showed up with a huge rig after my relatively silent set and the sound guy was not excited. I do sound as well and recently had a guy have his twin blaring on stage and I remembered " This is why I switched to Kemper" among many other reasons.^^

  • Went through the same recently. Band after showed up with a huge rig after my relatively silent set and the sound guy was not excited. I do sound as well and recently had a guy have his twin blaring on stage and I remembered " This is why I switched to Kemper" among many other reasons.^^

    It just seems so unnecesary now :)

  • I would not suggest people buying el-cheapo IEMs, but as a first step a set of Shure SE215s are impossible to beat for all around value.


    No - they do not compete with good, multi-driver brands - but they’re also WAY less expensive at $120 or so.


    I’ve got a pair I’ve used at church since 2015 or so. Are they great? Well….they aren’t bad and they’re as durable as can be.


    I replaced the cable once….in 7 years, being used a 4-6 times per month depending.


    Yeah would never talk against the built quality of those and the "bang for the bucks" factor. :) I have them too as a backup and also for guests. And also I made a custom fit for my ears which increased the bass response a lot in my case. But wouldn't call them a lot of fun. Many people who start using inears have problems missing the balls in the sound and it doesn't give them a great time. And I would argue, that this mainly comes from the inears and a bad mix. :)

  • Yeah would never talk against the built quality of those and the "bang for the bucks" factor. :) I have them too as a backup and also for guests. And also I made a custom fit for my ears which increased the bass response a lot in my case. But wouldn't call them a lot of fun. Many people who start using inears have problems missing the balls in the sound and it doesn't give them a great time. And I would argue, that this mainly comes from the inears and a bad mix. :)

    Having recently invested in some reasonable quality in ears ( Ultimate Ears), I still can;t get the same experience as the amp in the room sound....not that I expected to....


    So, I don;t think its just about bass response or mix, but its the expectation. My view is...you will comprise on sound but the benefits are huge!