monitor output

  • Hi Gents,


    I keep struggling with keeping up with a 100W friedman tube amp with my stage and SD powerstage 700.

    My cleans dissapear and leads don't cut through and sound thin ... I tried a lot : playing with clean sense, using dedicated "cut the mix" presets, even tone junkies "hot like a knife" ... adding boost, raising rig volume, amp volume ...


    What would be the n° setting ? I prev added pre boost but then the amp "saturated" and topped off ...


    What do you typically do ... should I add a lead boost after the amp ?

    Regarding the clean I want to be louder but then the output leds go into red !


    What I also think is that when I use the monitor output I have this output pretty high, meaning I only have the poweramp at 9'o clock ... can it be that by boosting my rig into lead territory I hit the sealing of the SD ? So is is better to lower the output and "crank" the SD ?


    Thanks


    Raf

    Kemper stage with 2 mission pedals (in a Thon line 6 FBV case) and a Zilla 212 (K-100/V30) , SD powerstage 700 poweramp

  • You have a Kemper Stage running from the monitor output into a Seymour Duncan Powerstage 700, what type of cabinet are you using and what cabinet is the player of the Friedman using?

    I've only had the Powerstage 700 for a week and I don't play loud, others might chime in that are playing in a live band environment with one. My monitor out is set at -18db and with the volume on the Powerstage set at 10 o'clock its loud, at 12 o'clock I can't take it, but that's at home with a 112 cabinet loaded with a 200 watt speaker.

  • You have a Kemper Stage running from the monitor output into a Seymour Duncan Powerstage 700, what type of cabinet are you using and what cabinet is the player of the Friedman using?

    I've only had the Powerstage 700 for a week and I don't play loud, others might chime in that are playing in a live band environment with one. My monitor out is set at -18db and with the volume on the Powerstage set at 10 o'clock its loud, at 12 o'clock I can't take it, but that's at home with a 112 cabinet loaded with a 200 watt speaker.

    A zilla 2x12 super fatboy vertical ... the other one a 4x12 frog ...


    I´ll try to use a lower db on the output to leave some Room for extra gaan on the input of the sd ...


    Raf

    Kemper stage with 2 mission pedals (in a Thon line 6 FBV case) and a Zilla 212 (K-100/V30) , SD powerstage 700 poweramp

  • A zilla 2x12 super fatboy vertical ... the other one a 4x12 frog ...


    I´ll try to use a lower db on the output to leave some Room for extra gaan on the input of the sd ...


    Raf

    Oh man, with either one of those cabinets I'd have everyone in the band upset lol!

    In the late 80's I had a Peavey Stereo Chorus 400, a 2 x 12 solid state amp that could overshadow the whole band, drummer included ; )

  • i don´t have an issue with playing loud, for some reason I can´t get that extra push for leads ...

    Kemper stage with 2 mission pedals (in a Thon line 6 FBV case) and a Zilla 212 (K-100/V30) , SD powerstage 700 poweramp

  • i don´t have an issue with playing loud, for some reason I can´t get that extra push for leads ...

    I was having some issues so recently I reset my Kemper to factory settings, after several years of dabbling I thought a fresh start might straighten out anything I might have inadvertently done, I've only changed the low and high cut and monitor volume since and everything is working very well now. Have you tried an eq after the amp to push the mids a little more to help cut through just for solos?

    Sometimes with a boost before the amp you can turn the mix percentage of that effect down some to gain a push in volume but retain a little more clarity from your guitar without over saturation. If I'm finding a profile difficult to manipulate I'll move on to another one, the better one sounds out of the gate equals less hassle for me to work with it. I also find that profiles, just like amps, behave differently to the stomps, some except boosts and drives better than others, there are so many available it's worth auditioning a bunch to find the few that play well with your rig.

  • A couple of thongs come to mind;


    What speakers are in each cabinet? A slightly more efficient speaker will give a very noticeable increase in volume. A slightly different EQ curve between speakers may create a higher/lower perceived volume.


    Generally it is common to run the output from the KPA high and the receiving amp lower.


    Is Poweramp Boost turned up on the KPA? Even though you don’t have an internal power amp the Monitor Output and Speaker Output on powered versions share the same signal path. Therefore, increasing Poweramp Boost on a non powered version still increases the output level at the monitor out.


    Rather than mess with Boost Pedals after the Amp I would just increase Amp or Rig volume for the solo sounds. You should get a Vert noticeable increase in “push”.

  • A couple of thongs come to mind;


    What speakers are in each cabinet? A slightly more efficient speaker will give a very noticeable increase in volume. A slightly different EQ curve between speakers may create a higher/lower perceived volume.


    Generally it is common to run the output from the KPA high and the receiving amp lower.


    Is Poweramp Boost turned up on the KPA? Even though you don’t have an internal power amp the Monitor Output and Speaker Output on powered versions share the same signal path. Therefore, increasing Poweramp Boost on a non powered version still increases the output level at the monitor out.


    Rather than mess with Boost Pedals after the Amp I would just increase Amp or Rig volume for the solo sounds. You should get a Vert noticeable increase in “push”.

    I need to check the poweramp boost ... I did not realize it was also affecting non powered kempers ... imho if that's the case the option should be greyed out on on powered versons as well as the stage !


    I have a V30 and a k-100 in the cab ...


    Raf

    Kemper stage with 2 mission pedals (in a Thon line 6 FBV case) and a Zilla 212 (K-100/V30) , SD powerstage 700 poweramp

  • Is Poweramp Boost turned up on the KPA? Even though you don’t have an internal power amp the Monitor Output and Speaker Output on powered versions share the same signal path. Therefore, increasing Poweramp Boost on a non powered version still increases the output level at the monitor out.

    I've misunderstood this, when looking at the manual (page 92-93) I thought it was saying that when using the internal power amp you get the same signal as monitor out but a loss of signal volume, so the power amp boost added 12db. When using just the monitor out disengaging the power boost returns the monitor out to full signal, so I disengage power amp and boost in Rig Manager on my non powered rack.


    (from manual)

    Power Amp Boost

    As mentioned, the power amp is internally connected to the MONITOR OUTPUT, which provides enough headroom to support even the loud attacks and transients of clean guitars. However, this comfortable headroom will naturally lower the signal volume for the power amp, so you might not achieve the desired loudness. Turning up the "Power Amp Boost” will increase the volume loudness by up to 12 dB, in addition to the other volume controls in the signal flow, such as "Monitor Volume” or "Rig Volume”. The "Power Amp Boost” has no further impact to the sound or dynamics of the power amp. When the power amp is switched off, the "Power Amp Boost ” is deactivated, thus returning the full signal headroom to the MONITOR OUTPUT.


    ps. try to get your mind off of the thongs this early in the morning, it makes for a really long day😏

  • Not sure if that is an update or an old wording that hasn’t been updated. The Power Amp boost definitely did affect the Monitor Output on non powered versions. You obviously can’t turn the Power Amp On/Off on a non powered version so that line in the manual doesn’t make much sense. I’m not near my KPA at the moment but it’s easy enough to test. Just turn it up and down and see if it does anything.

  • Not sure if that is an update or an old wording that hasn’t been updated. The Power Amp boost definitely did affect the Monitor Output on non powered versions. You obviously can’t turn the Power Amp On/Off on a non powered version so that line in the manual doesn’t make much sense. I’m not near my KPA at the moment but it’s easy enough to test. Just turn it up and down and see if it does anything.

    I'm sitting in front of the stage right now, I noticed I had to activate kemper kone in order to see the powerampboost (which was set at 6 db). Does this mean that when the kone is not activated there's no boosting happening ?


    Raf

    Kemper stage with 2 mission pedals (in a Thon line 6 FBV case) and a Zilla 212 (K-100/V30) , SD powerstage 700 poweramp

  • I'm sitting in front of the stage right now, I noticed I had to activate kemper kone in order to see the powerampboost (which was set at 6 db). Does this mean that when the kone is not activated there's no boosting happening ?


    Raf

    I don’t know as I have a Power Head but it is easy to test. If there is no boost happening the output will be 6db lower.

  • I'm sitting in front of the stage right now, I noticed I had to activate kemper kone in order to see the powerampboost (which was set at 6 db). Does this mean that when the kone is not activated there's no boosting happening ?


    Raf

    The poweramp boost was added on the Stage (and non-powered head/rack) after PowerKabinet's launch cause many complained about low dB problems.

    So it's directly linked to the PowerKabinet (so to the Kone too) ! ;)

    What I also think is that when I use the monitor output I have this output pretty high, meaning I only have the poweramp at 9'o clock ... can it be that by boosting my rig into lead territory I hit the sealing of the SD ? So is is better to lower the output and "crank" the SD ?


    Thanks


    Raf

    This is really astonishing you have not enough power to feed your speakers ; the SD is 2x700W =O...

    C.Kemper advised to crank the poweramp of the Kabinet to achieve the best headroom. Don't push it too far cause your speakers will meet matters...

    I do the same now with my stage/BAM200/home made Kabinet. Push the gain/volume on the BAM and lower the stage's output...

  • The poweramp boost was added on the Stage (and non-powered head/rack) after PowerKabinet's launch cause many complained about low dB problems.

    So it's directly linked to the PowerKabinet (so to the Kone too) ! ;)

    This is really astonishing you have not enough power to feed your speakers ; the SD is 2x700W =O...

    C.Kemper advised to crank the poweramp of the Kabinet to achieve the best headroom. Don't push it too far cause your speakers will meet matters...

    I do the same now with my stage/BAM200/home made Kabinet. Push the gain/volume on the BAM and lower the stage's output...

    I do have lots of power with the SD, more then ever needed ... What i'm wondering is that if the signal into the SD is hot, and the extra db's I add for leads will cause the input to reach it's limit ...


    Regarding the powerampboost, this option is only visible while engaging the kone ... Same here is it always activated while not visible ?


    Raf


    ps : i'll try to test my full rig tomorrow with lowering the output (so input of the SD) and setting the master higher !

    Kemper stage with 2 mission pedals (in a Thon line 6 FBV case) and a Zilla 212 (K-100/V30) , SD powerstage 700 poweramp

  • Not sure if that is an update or an old wording that hasn’t been updated. The Power Amp boost definitely did affect the Monitor Output on non powered versions. You obviously can’t turn the Power Amp On/Off on a non powered version so that line in the manual doesn’t make much sense. I’m not near my KPA at the moment but it’s easy enough to test. Just turn it up and down and see if it does anything.

    It was from the main manual 8.5, I found the change in wording on page 15 of addendum 8.7.

    "When KEMPER Kone mode is switched off, the "Power Amp Boost” is deactivated, thus returning the full signal headroom to the MONITOR OUTPUT."

    So it only works if Kemper Kone is activated and not available for the OP's setup. As far as the Power Amp on/off goes, it shows as on with a light in the Output section of Rig Manager when you are at original factory settings, even though it serves no purpose in the non powered rack I turn it off, knowing that light is on bugs me ; )

  • There are 2 things at work here:

    1) Defo need the poweramp boost flat out. I also have the poweredrack but I had seen other people struggle with volume into a separate power amp and so had to use the boost


    2) Volume and cut. Im not clear if its out and out volume you are struggling with or cut. Clean has me worried as you should not clash there, so hopefully a volume issue. I found cut the mix slices through most things so maybe your profiles are really mid heavy and frequencies are clashing. Reduce a bit of gain often helps...


    Let us know how you get on.

  • The clean I think I solved by increasing the clean sense, I have a pretty soft pick attack ... boosting 2.2 dB (humbuckers) seems to work (although I need to be gentle otherwise the output turns red.


    Also I noticed that I had my noise gate in the input at 5 which also seems to squeez the juice out of the profiles ?


    Raf

    Kemper stage with 2 mission pedals (in a Thon line 6 FBV case) and a Zilla 212 (K-100/V30) , SD powerstage 700 poweramp