Put IRs of the Kone profiles as presets

  • Hi,


    it would be great to have the Kemper Kone profiles as IRs so you can preview what the outcome will be once you connect the kemper cab and you could have a similar sound coming out of the cab and the FOH speakers.

  • Hi,


    it would be great to have the Kemper Kone profiles as IRs so you can preview what the outcome will be once you connect the kemper cab and you could have a similar sound coming out of the cab and the FOH speakers.

    You can never achieve similar sound from the Kone and FOH! Just check this forum - it has been discussed several times here.

  • No, it will never be the same. I am sorry. And even if it is the same - than with the FRFR selected it will sound only with the cab profiled (!) not the Kone imprints!!

    ...and that is exactly what goes through FOH. The imprint serve the purpose to give the "amp in the room" feel for monitoring purposes. If you would be using a real amp you hear the amp direct on stage and the public hear the mic'd amp through the FOH (that is very much different from what you hear on stage)

  • ...and that is exactly what goes through FOH. The imprint serve the purpose to give the "amp in the room" feel for monitoring purposes. If you would be using a real amp you hear the amp direct on stage and the public hear the mic'd amp through the FOH (that is very much different from what you hear on stage)

    Yes, but the original request I responded was about something else:


    It would be great to have the Kemper Kone profiles as IRs so you can preview what the outcome will be once you connect the kemper cab and you could have a similar sound coming out of the cab and the FOH speakers.

  • Well, the question is, if a Kemper generated IR of a certain speaker that you might upload in a rig is in any way comparable to the one that is used for the Kemper Kone. May be it is tweaked for this purpose. Then a use of such IR in the signal path for the FOH outputs would make no sense. But if they are the same, what is the problem to offer them to interested users?

  • Well, the question is, if a Kemper generated IR of a certain speaker that you might upload in a rig is in any way comparable to the one that is used for the Kemper Kone. May be it is tweaked for this purpose. Then a use of such IR in the signal path for the FOH outputs would make no sense. But if they are the same, what is the problem to offer them to interested users?

    even if it’s tweaked especially for one purpose, I don’t see why we just can’t access it.
    what can works on kone can work more or less on monitors.
    could be great for home use.


    You can put 8 drives with no amp and no cab if you want but I don’t think it ways to way to be used. ;)

  • Well, the question is, if a Kemper generated IR of a certain speaker that you might upload in a rig is in any way comparable to the one that is used for the Kemper Kone. May be it is tweaked for this purpose. Then a use of such IR in the signal path for the FOH outputs would make no sense. But if they are the same, what is the problem to offer them to interested users?


    even if it’s tweaked especially for one purpose, I don’t see why we just can’t access it.
    what can works on kone can work more or less on monitors.
    could be great for home use.


    You can put 8 drives with no amp and no cab if you want but I don’t think it ways to way to be used. ;)

    All you are saying is correct only if "Kone speaker imprints" equals "IRs"! And I personally doubt it is. But I am not an expert, so maybe somebody from Kemper Support #1 should comment it.

  • Speaker imprints are not like impulse responses because unlike impulse responses they recreate the sound of the pure speaker and not the sound of the speaker as it was run through a microphone. Speaker imprints only work as intended when they are being monitored through a Kone speaker.

    In other words, sending a speaker imprint signal to a PA speaker will not give you the same sound that you are hearing from the Kemper Kabinet.

  • I dont have a Kone (because I am poor). But if I did, I would download Room EQ Wizard and make the IRs right from the Kone itself. These would be colored by the mic and setup of course. But REW lets you average several runs/traces together, so you could move the mic around then average.


    Since I like to EQ IRs to tailor them to my sound, I have run many of my favorite Kemper profiles to get raw IR wave files. For example, the Lars Luettge Marshall 1960A IR is one of the best sounding IRs I have ever heard. So I swept his profile in one of the Kemper packs and now I have it to modify when needed.


    REW is the coolest tool I have ever seen for making IRs or profiles. Its frequency sweep will let you see everything wrong with your mic positioning and room treatments. Free to use but I really suggest sending some cash to the author for this amazing program.


    I planned on making an in depth post here about how to use REW, have not got around to it. Been too busy making an OD/distortion pedal VST in JUCE and wishing I never heard of C++ :cursing:



  • Due to its design, you can't close-mic a Kone and achieve good results.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Due to its design, you can't close-mic a Kone and achieve good results.

    I believe you. It just looks a lot like a speaker to me :)


    RHETORICAL

    Seems like a major design flaw if you cant mic it. What is the point of even having it then? You will need to EQ your profile for the speaker no matter how good it is. So are you going to EQ for FOH then just use different imprints to get it close? That does not sound like typical Kemper design.


    NOTES:

    Looking at it real quick it sounds like the Kemper is doing some DSP EQing to what it sends also. So if you were to REW scan it, it should be done thru the Kemper with no amp, EQ, etc.

  • It looks like a single speaker - but in essence there are actually two there. Close mic'ing won't sound right at all. Likely due to phase issues that can't be corrected.


    The point of the Kone - and the ONLY real point of a Kone is for personal monitoring. To get the amp-in-the-room sound guitarists hear from a regular amplifier. A sound that FOH never hears.

    To me - matching the FOH sound is pointless. Standing in front of an amp is a very different sound compared to FOH. No one I've ever heard of complains about that difference with a tube amp present.


    FOH gets a mic'd sound one way or the other. With a KPA, it's totally consistent and not dependent on the mic used, the room or the skill of the person placing the mic.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • From the Main Manual, page 100:

    • Due to its special cone design, the KEMPER Kone speaker is not suitable for close mic‘ing. Use it for personal monitoring only.
  • Speaker imprints are not like impulse responses because unlike impulse responses they recreate the sound of the pure speaker and not the sound of the speaker as it was run through a microphone. Speaker imprints only work as intended when they are being monitored through a Kone speaker.

    In other words, sending a speaker imprint signal to a PA speaker will not give you the same sound that you are hearing from the Kemper Kabinet.

    so now that you have the tech and algorithms, it’s time for a kemper mkII that emulate that as well 😬

  • I'm not saying they should sound exactly the same. That's near to impossible and also not what happens with traditional equipment.


    But, as an example, I have found a P12Q IR that behaves very closely to the imprint and have found that it gives much consistency between stage and FOH. They're not the same, but the P12Q peculiarities really come through.


    I'm just saying it could spare some work to have such an IR (or a few choices per imprint) at the ready that reflect the imprint choices.

  • I'm not saying they should sound exactly the same. That's near to impossible and also not what happens with traditional equipment.


    But, as an example, I have found a P12Q IR that behaves very closely to the imprint and have found that it gives much consistency between stage and FOH. They're not the same, but the P12Q peculiarities really come through.


    I'm just saying it could spare some work to have such an IR (or a few choices per imprint) at the ready that reflect the imprint choices.

    I totally get what you are saying.


    The "amp in the room" concept is great... but if the imprints create a sound on stage (e.g., Jensen P12R) that isn't matched to what is sent to FOH (mic'd up Jensen P12R), the player may not have a reasonable idea of what the audience is hearing. If the imprints are not reflective of what is going to the house, I'd rather use a house monitor; at least that's coming from the same source as the PA.


    In effect, the imprints give you the flexibility to create an "amp in the room" sound that is not full linked to the actual sound going back to the house (which, at least to me, is counterintuitive).


    Don't get me wrong, I think it's awesome that Kemper is adding cool features like the imprints (and I know some users were asking for it) - but I also understand the problems that markvs is noting here.


    Peace out,

    Dango

  • In effect, the imprints give you the flexibility to create an "amp in the room" sound that is not full linked to the actual sound going back to the house (which, at least to me, is counterintuitive).

    Imprints are designed SPECIFICALLY for that purpose. It isn’t counter intuitive to anyone who has played with a miced up amp on stage for years. The sound of a speaker on stage (amp in the room) is very different from the sound of the miced speaker going through the PA. This has never been a problem for guitarists with tube amps. In fact some of these players felt they missed the sound and feel of their old amps on stage pushing air even though that was never the sound the audience were hearing. The imprints were created to fill that need. However, as the the Kone can also run in a full range mode it is possible to get the same sound (or at least very similar sound) to that of the PA without the need for a separate monitor feed from the FOH desk. Therefore, you already have the ability to achieve what you are looking for but with the added benefit of amp on the room sound and feel if you want it.