Smooth tone dying, how?

  • There is something very ugly with the profiles / rigs I am using. This is a fluttering tone dying when you let the last hitted note standing. It is some kind of ugly, unnaturally wave (up/down loudness) instead a smooth, gradually dying tone. Are there any means or parameters to overcome this? Is it an effect of reverb?

    Anyone else who noticed this?

  • There is something very ugly with the profiles / rigs I am using. This is a fluttering tone dying when you let the last hitted note standing. It is some kind of ugly, unnaturally wave (up/down loudness) instead a smooth, gradually dying tone. Are there any means or parameters to overcome this? Is it an effect of reverb?

    Anyone else who noticed this?

    I did have a problem that sounds similar, turned out the TS cable I used was the wrong impedance - a dedicated quality guitar cable fixed this for me - might be worth checking?

  • Ah yes, I got it (mostly). My rigs had a big noise gate level around 6. Reducing it could mitigate the problem a lot, although not completely.

    Noise Gaters wins! ;)

    The more you find what Kemper can do then the harder you try to find what it cannot do -- like make a good cup of Frappuccino.

  • Maybe you want to check what causes the "noise" and fix the issue at the root ... instead of accepting the noise and trying to just suppress it with a gate?


    For example:

    Do you play a Strat or any other single coil guitar? If so, are the guitar cavities, cover(s) and pickguard properly copper-shielded (and grounded)?

  • Sorry to say: I reverted it. Yesterday, in the rehearsal room, I was annoyed by the noise coming out of the monitor box (Kemper directly into the mixer). Therefore reducing the noise gate is not the solution (if there is any).

    Don’t forget, built in gate is directly after the input. It’s quieting the guitar. Not the entire rig.


    Everything else comes after. Higher gain sounds may need a separate gate that’s more appropriately placed.


    In my experience, if you’re using the gate to quiet the sound with your hands off the strings - unless you take care, that will always result in much higher values and a choked sound. I try to set the gate with the strings stone- still, guitar wide open. The slightest nudge of the guitar will overcome the gate - but a hand touching the strings compensates. I back off until it’s almost too sensitive and am quick with the volume knob/pedal when needed.


    For Metal sounds, a stomp-slot gate may be a better choice.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Edited once, last by Ruefus ().

  • Don’t forget, built in gate is directly after the input. It’s quieting the guitar. Not the entire rig.


    Everything else comes after. Higher gain sounds may need a separate gate that’s more appropriately placed.

    So you advise to place a noise gate after the stack or at the end of the chain in this case ?


    I have the bad habit of using the rig noise gate, and when it's not enough efficient, put a 4:1 noise gate in the first slots ?(:S

  • So you advise to place a noise gate after the stack or at the end of the chain in this case ?


    I have the bad habit of using the rig noise gate, and when it's not enough efficient, put a 4:1 noise gate in the first slots ?(:S

    In short - yes. There's more to it of course, but yes.

    My best advice would be to check the manual. Page 33 for the Input gate. Page 206 for Noise Gate Stomps.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Don’t forget, built in gate is directly after the input. It’s quieting the guitar. Not the entire rig.

    This seems some kind of "logical". But in fact, it does not work like that. I have this stack: Compressor-Booster-Distortion-Amp(-Equalizier-Delay-Reverb). Testing it is easy: put all effects off, and no noise is there. Then switch booster and distortion on. If noise gate is set to 0, then there is ugly noise. Then, as the manual says, turn the noise gate to some value until there is no or almost no noise.

  • After experimenting with all those parameters, especially resetting input noise gate to zero, saving the performance, switch to another rig channel, go back to the edited one, then turn the noise gate on to the level where noise begins to disappear, I got the impression, the system now reacts different to my original problem of fluttering dying tones when letting the last note or chord standing and sounding out. Then there is not that heavy fluttering wave I had before. Maybe a result of some caching effect in the profiler, gone away when you save another input noise gate level?


    BTW: just changing only input noise, RigManager does not recognize a change, so the save button is not active. Wondering.

  • In short - yes. There's more to it of course, but yes.

    The best noise gate position would be the one where it sees the highest dynamic range. This should always be the very first position.


    If you put the gate after a gain changing effect, the dynamic range will be greatly reduced. Since compression, OD, gain, distortion, etc all chop the peaks off of signals.


    In the analog world your input could be 0-100% at the input. Once you compress it you could be as low as 0-5% or even lower dynamic range.


    What am I missing?

  • It's subjective, of course. But conventional wisdom says the gate goes after whatever is causing the noise. Why gate something before the source if the point is to lower the amount of noise that source puts out?


    By far the most common placement of a gate is after whatever is causing the problem.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Edited once, last by Ruefus ().

  • The noise is always present in the signal. Amplification does not necessarily add noise (especially in digital situations) it just makes the noise as loud as the guitar signal by reducing the guitar signal but not the noise signal.


    This could be called signal to noise ratio.


    The gain stages reduce the level of the loudest part of the signal by clipping the signal. This makes the ratio of loudest signal to noise signal very small. Which makes it much harder for the noise gate to work.



    In the INPUT picture above you can see that the noise gate (NG) threshold is set just above the noise. So the guitar signal can gradually fade out its volume before the gate turns off.


    In the GAIN stage picture can see the guitar signal is smashed and clipped so there is no wiggle room in the noise gate setting. Your notes will not be able to slowly fade out volume. This would be good if you were doing a metal rhythm so the signal is all on or all off. For quick stops etc.


    But I am not too bright so I could be way off ;) And sorry for the kindergarten graphics.