New youtube comparison of Real Amp vs Kemper vs Quad Cortex vs ToneX

  • That's it! I'm selling the Kemper! Nah, just kidding. They all sound the same to me but my ears were shot years ago - I blame the drummers.


    I don't know, but I suspect these results may be dependent on the amp being profiled and the amp settings. It's one data point, one tone, hard to say the trend will be universal. I will say, my cynical ears perked up when he said that he almost preferred the ToneX to the real amp on one of the examples. I thought the goal here was to see how close the modelers could get to the real amp tone. Seems to give away a bias maybe?

  • what I took from that video is that all 3 options worked brilliantly and sounded so close as to make no difference in the real world. Therefore, choose one that fits your budget and workflow then learn to use it and make music instead of GASing over the next new shiny toy.

    ...in addition, I struggled to hear almost any difference, particularly when listening blind.

    More difference in your fingers and psychologically how you approach each one.

  • I think the tonal differences were pretty obvious. I'm amazed by the null test results of the Tonex technology actually. Amazing tech. Still love the Kemper for what it does, but might get the Tonex plugin in a few years for the convenience in reamping.

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop | LTD EC-1000 Evertune | 1988 Desert Yellow JEM

  • I have bought Tonex max, but only tried for a few days. So far there are some user "Tone Models" already that really feel and sound excellent - also edge of break up tones! I really forgot playing a plugin.


    But it seems they are almost too uncompressed and open sounding. Also people have to add gain later and the attack seems to be softer with less bite.


    Regarding the video I am pretty sure you can get closer results with the Kemper Profiler if you don't use a loadbox (with certain amps) and master the refining process. But as Tim said before: Refining is art. Maybe Kemper should consider introducing an automated / more sophisticated refining process too?!


    Tonex needs some more time and updates (and better UI). But it is a great product, no doubt.

    Edited once, last by Ibot39 ().

  • ...your ears are better than mine then (although my headphones are a bit duff and I'm doing it during work). I think the average person would struggle to distinguish..

    I see this a bit differently. The quality of a guitar performance is greatly dependent on whether the artist enjoy the sound/feel while performing. And the listener will pick up on that.


    IOW I think the "no one can tell in a mix" argument is largely invalid.

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop | LTD EC-1000 Evertune | 1988 Desert Yellow JEM

  • Regarding the video I am pretty sure you can get closer results with the Kemper Profiler if you don't use a loadbox (with certain amps) and master the refining process. But as Tim said before: Refining is art. Maybe Kemper should consider introducing an automated / more sophisticated refining process too?!

    I was interested enough to rad som detailed reviews. It appears that the ToneX automated refining process can take over 10 minutes on a fairly powerful computer and longer on lower spec machines. That’s pretty intensive refining. I would think that spending 10 or 15 minutes constantly carefully refining the Kemper profiles would result in a very close null test result.

  • I quit watching these comparisons a while ago. If it sounds (and feels) good, then it is.

    I see this a bit differently. The quality of a guitar performance is greatly dependent on whether the artist enjoy the sound/feel while performing. And the listener will pick up on that.


    IOW I think the "no one can tell in a mix" argument is largely invalid.

    I agree with this. It may sound the same - but to the person actually playing the experience can be very, very different.

    This does not mean better or worse. Just different.

    How the unit reacts/interacts with the player will have an audible affect on their approach. Some (most?) will be more inspired by the tube amp. As more and more people use digital solutions without ever plugging into an actual tube amp, I think that might even out. The inspiration will be there, it'll just be different.

    The other thing we tend to ignore when comparing one amp sound to another are effects. With few exceptions - guitarists don't play with a bone-dry amp sound, with nothing in the path. Not even Angus Young plays straight in. A key component for him is his Schaffer-Vega Diversity System.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • It appears that the ToneX automated refining process can take over 10 minutes on a fairly powerful computer and longer on lower spec machines.

    At $199 for the hardware, the ToneX is a no brainer. But its big flaws are limited effects and the refine time. If you like to make profiles at all, I guarantee you will not enjoy doing it on the ToneX.


    ToneX Refine times


    I tend to make a ton of profiles looking for that perfect one. So I do a lot of EQ and Mic positions etc. This would take days on the ToneX but only about an hour on the Kemper. Much more rewarding and easy to do.


    That said, the Kemper sounds compressed. I really hate this sound because it seems like it would be an easy fix. Just remove whatever auto-gain circuit is being used to level profiles. Hopefully the end result of this video is Kemper cleaning up their sound in the next update.


    The Kemper sounds amazing. And it is the best Ecosystem out there. But it could be even better very easily. For now I will keep adding clean mix to make up for the compressed sound.

  • I'm always iffy on comparisons on YouTube ... doesn't matter what he's using to record, the YouTube audio is compressed so much a lot is missing. Also, comparing heavily distorted guitar tones also masks a lot imperfections.

  • I also wish kemper could remove that « Kemper compression » of the profiles.


    that’s really what bothering me and make me wanna try a fractal.

  • For live use, I think that either the Kemper with the FC (or the stage), or the Fractal Axe III Fx with the FC12 MKII foot controller are impossible to beat for live work flow. I can't fathom using a QC for live, but that is just me.


    ToneX seems like something no one should ever bring to a gig to me, YMMV.

  • I see this a bit differently. The quality of a guitar performance is greatly dependent on whether the artist enjoy the sound/feel while performing. And the listener will pick up on that.


    IOW I think the "no one can tell in a mix" argument is largely invalid.

    We actually agree... this comparison I think used a sample and on that basis very little difference in the audio. I also think psychology plays a massive part which is why I struggled moving from tube...my brain would not accept digital could be as good, so by definition for me, it wasn't...


    In other words, it's more about how you react than the actual sound coming out...which is why blind tests can be more revealing as it removes bias.

  • That said, the Kemper sounds compressed. I really hate this sound because it seems like it would be an easy fix. Just remove whatever auto-gain circuit is being used to level profiles. Hopefully the end result of this video is Kemper cleaning up their sound in the next update.


    The Kemper sounds amazing. And it is the best Ecosystem out there. But it could be even better very easily. For now I will keep adding clean mix to make up for the compressed sound.

    I did hear it in that video clip.

    I'm wondering if the Kemper compression varies with different amp profiles (I'm asking as it's not something I immediately noticed when I play my Kemper, although I have heard other people comment on this)? I know amp designs and tube choice ( and speaker design) can add compression to different degrees.

    Edited once, last by paddyc ().