Putting a patchbay in the KPA effects loop?

Brattcave · Aug 19th 2012

Hi,
Apologies for the length of this but I wanted to provide enough information for any passing forum brains to be able to help out.
Like many of us here I suspect I've amassed a fair bit of 'Gearage' over the years and would like to use it more conveniently in the KPA's effect loop. Rather than continually plug it in / out or leave it all plugged in a more conventional signal path, I've been thinking about using a patchbay in the effect loop but I've not used this sort of set-up before and was wondering if this is a workable idea?

The sort of equipment I'm looking at using is as follows - they are mostly stereo inputs/outputs unless otherwise stated:
Boss VF-1 multi-effects
TC G Major
Electrix Filter Factory
POD HD500
POD X3
Boss SL20 slicer
Boss DD50 giga delay
Electro Harmonix Q Tron plus (mono)
Digitech Whammy pedal (mono)
An old Zoom 1201 (!)

I'd be using unbalanced connections on all these units. I expect I would go down the TRS route in terms of patchbays rather than any hard wired connections or bantam type units.

Questions...
1. Despite using unbalanced connections would a balanced patchbay be the way to go? I've found some examples of similar setups and people seem to be using balanced patchbays as it gives them the option of adding balanced gear later.
2. What sort of cables should I be using into the patchbay and for patching?
3. What other issues should I be aware of...?
4. Any recommendations for patchbays? The DBX PB-48 Point Patchbay looks like it will accept balanced TRS or unbalanced TS connections.
Is anyone using a similar system to this?

Any comments on any of this would be gratefully received as left to my own devices I'm bound to blow something up

Cheers

Brett

Steeldom · Aug 20th 2012

Hi,

maybe I missunderstoud you but a patchbay is only a connector between different stuff. One channel of it doesn't affect the others (or else it is a BAD patchbay )

You only have one fx-loop on the Kemper but a lot of stuff you want to connect to it. You basically have two options:
1. Serial switching system.
That means that you have a switcher that activates only the unit (or units) you want to be active at a time. The rest is out of the signal chain. This is common in the "big racks" but also pretty expensive.
You could just plug everything in a row but that would give you the same effect as with too many stomp boxes
2. Parallel
This means you split the signal after the fx loop, send it through every unit seperatly and mix it together at the end.

I know the feeling of having unused stuff but I'd recommend you to choose one or two favourites and leave the rest. I use a HD 500 as midicontroller and for additional effects. And even that means a LOT of cable work, just to have these two units run together. The more stuff you connect the more likely something will fail and you'll spend your time troubleshooting.
The HD 500 has all sorts of effects and is a midicontroller. It doesn't do everything perfect (and I have the feeling it flattens the dynamics of the Kemper a bit...) but all in all its a good compromise.

I hope that helps

Brattcave · Aug 21st 2012

Hi Steeldom,

Thanks for taking the time to look at this. Your alternatives gave me something to think about actually. A switcher is a nice idea but as you mentioned, might be quite costly.
I like the creative possibilities of mixing the parallel signal post fx loop... I might give that a try with (another ) spare Roland digital mixer I have. E.g KPA effect loop send > 4 way audio splitter > external FX units > mixer > back to KPA effects return. Might get some interesting results like that if I could work out the various mono/stereo variables.

With regards to the patchbays... I'm new to these and it seems it can get quite complex for my caveman cognitive abilities. What I was thinking of was to have perhaps a few different paths setup and decide which one I want patched into the KPA effects loop. E.g KPA effect sends to Patchbay inputs patched to external effects back to KPA effect return. I could only feed one external effect at a time using this but I could link a few units together like the boss pedals. E.g

PodHD500 to KPA OR...
Boss DD delay connected in series with Boss Slicer OR..
TC G Major to KPA OR...

Would this not work then?
I'd still be plugging things in and out (Unless I used 'normalled' connections) but it would hopefully be more flexible than it currently is. These things are actually more difficult to describe in words than to actually do!

Thanks again.

Steeldom · Aug 21st 2012

Ok, yes of course. If you are willing to plug/unplug cables everytime you want to use either of your devices, then the patchbay is a good option to have everything "prewired". You then only need to plug one or two small cables from one patchbay channel to another.

I guess you plan on using this at home or in your studio or something like thatß For that purpose thats a good idea because you can also access one of the devices alone.

But if you ever have the feeling of using a combination of these live I'd suggest to make things as easy as you can.

Brattcave · Aug 21st 2012

Lol I sometimes think I try and make things as hard as I can!

Yep, this is all for small home studio use - having a new StudioRTA Producer station desk delivered so I'm deluding myself that I can finally get everything 'sorted'.
Once and for all. For at least er a few weeks...

Settled on a Samson S-Patch Plus 48 Point patchbay in the end as it has switchable normal/half normal/thru switches on the front. If it all works I'll post a diagram in case anyone else is thinking along similar lines. If it all blows up I'll post a pic of me with a banner simply stating "Don't!"

Cheers for your input.

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