8.7.12 Public Beta S/PDIF volume drop

  • Oh, seems like I forgot some more examples outside the reamping situation.


    2. How do you know how "hot" the signal coming out of the Profiler is? If you think of a very soft signal, e.g. some very mellow playing without any strong transients, does that actually need a forced -6dB pad to please the -12dB RMS police? Hardly.

    That is the point where the 0 dbfs is a moving target.

    A dynamic signal that has not gone through a limiter (e.g. at mastering) yet, is always prone to be pretty soft, or hit the full scale boundaries the next second.

    When we investigated the complaint issues of "too much digital level", I found out that the SPDIF level gets internally boosted by 6 dB, which does not do any good. I got rid of this internal 6 dB boost as a consequence.

    Seen from the Profilers perspective, we have brought back the signal to our 0 dbsf definition.

  • If I record Git Studio through S/PDIF, I want to be able to reamp using exactly this same level going back into the Profiler through S/PDIF. It's been 10 years I didn't have to worry about reamping levels. And now, for no good reason, you've changed that?

    If I ever had to do small changes to the reamping level, I'd do it in TotalMixFX. But I leave the recorded DI track in the DAW 100% untouched.


    That is probably the main issue.

    I broke the Profilers promiss to maintain the relation of DI output versus reamping sensitivity.

    I have missed to correct that sensivity by the same 6 dB. This will follow very soon!


    Thanks for this hint.

  • I have missed to correct that sensivity by the same 6 dB. This will follow very soon!

    So this means, you will keep the forced 6dB pad (compared to previous firmwares) and by that break all my old and current projects? I will have to remember christmas 2022 for the rest of my life to know where I need to adjust manually or not?

    What is SO hard for you to just leave us the option to continue the (proven) way it's been for 10+ years? Do not force us into something we really don't want, PLEASE. Otherwise I'll be stuck with the firmware that didn't have this crap. And I would totally hate that but do it.

  • Yes, same with my Apollo. :(

  • This -12 dB is the amp signal (distorted) or the DI signal?

  • Heres a Picture Left is KPA SPDIF Vol @ 0 latest Beta

    on the right KPA Analog out Amp Vol @ 0 Master@ 0

    Fender Rig

    Thats what i mean, not useable far away from what i call a good Input gain

    with the latest release the gains were even with this settings

  • Heres a Picture Left is KPA SPDIF Vol @ 0 latest Beta

    on the right KPA Analog out Amp Vol @ 0 Master@ 0

    Fender Rig

    Thats what i mean, not useable far away from what i call a good Input gain

    with the latest release the gains were even with this settings

    Thanks for this pic.

    What you get now, is the very original digital signal that is happening in the Profiler.

    The Profiler leaves enough headroom for upward dynamics.

    Boosting this signal before SPDIF does not improve the signal at all, but clipping SPDIF is at risk.

    In difference to an analog signal, boosting a digital signal does not have any positive effect, since you don't level an analog device.

    Thus, this is a good input gain.

    Boosting it in the DAW is fine however, because there the signal processing does not have a clipping limit.


    Be aware, that in the DAW mixer, you will approach a 0 dB headroom anyway, so I assume you would have attenuated the Profiler coming in at -6 dB anyway.


    With the latest release the gains would not have been equal still, since your picture shows a 12 dB difference.

  • Sorry but for me the -12 Signal from SPDIF is a weak Signal

    I must be at lowest near the -9 db Spot in this UA Console

    With latest release analog and digital at 0 hit this -9 Spot together

    There's no need for this amount of Headroom from the SPDIF out

    What I record from the Kemper is nearly the compl Produced Guitar Sound

    in the DAW i don't change this Sound anymore this big, that's what the Kemper is made for

    serving cmpl Guitar Sounds

  • Simple solution, add a -12dB pad soft button if your peace of mind requires it. I don't even mind if it's active on factory default.

    but do NOT force us into something we don't want and need. It's a bloody damn rabbit hole. People like me have setup track presets with carefully adjusted compressor(s) plugins, saturation plugins ... or even analog outboard effects and handwritten recall sheets. Things can go terribly wrong and cumbersome if you forcefully change the gainstaging we've used and setup for years.

    I really don't understand why it's so important for you to cause trouble after thousands of tracks / albums have been successfully produced and published using the Profiler. Just don't do it and let us live in peace!

  • I was missing out on the newer firmware versions because Rig Manager has some kind of strange conflict with my OS recently, so I cannot install it anymore. But now I have upgraded to the newest public beta with an USB stick. This volume decrease will piss off a lot of people. I think you should re-consider it.

  • Not using S/PDIF myself, but a quick comment from a user and developer perspective: changing the behavior of a device

    • without telling the users very explicitly
    • without an option to revert to the old behavior
    • resulting in a lot of broken workflows that have been established over years of usage

    isn't really user-friendly - also breaks the "principle of least surprise". When I introduce a modification that behaves differently from established behavior, I try to make it optional (where possible and useful) - and I make the default setting of that option so that the "old" behavior persists.


    Doesn't really matter what the "correct" 0 dB level is - users have worked with the current setting for quite some time and established their workflows around it - this change breaks their workflows, which is definitely unpleasant - and could be avoidable. Simplest solution (if you don't want to open the volume control can of worms) would be a simple switch in S/PDIF options: "+6 dB / 0 dB", with the default being the old "+6 dB" (in CK-speak) setting.


    Makes sense?


    Cheers,


    Torsten

  • I agree with the suggested soft button approach to this issue. Give the complainers a fix and leave the rest of us to go on with our established workflow.


    I always go into a DAW via spdif and the long standing setting gave me a perfect signal for DAW processing and matching backing tracks from others.

  • I like this idea, and this gets my vote!