8.7.12 Public Beta S/PDIF volume drop

  • I received confirmation from our engineering, that the S/PDIF OUTPUT level has been decreased by 6 dB in latest OS versions based on customer requests. Sorry for any inconveniences!

  • ... based on customer requests.

    what the heck? :huh:


    And to be more precise:

    After 10 years of happily using S/PDIF in hundreds of projects, you suddenly break my workflow and make me recover 6dB manually on every single recorded track when I need to reamp (or record Git Studio through S/PDIF)? Seriously? Who the heck asked for that instead of just turning down his S/PDIF Output Volume?

  • That's a whoopsie :). Please revert :)

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
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  • Hi Guys,


    This volume drop is done in purpose.

    Whe have got complaints that the digital volume into a DAW is much too high, compared to usual volumes.

    About 12 dB too high.

    This is why probably we had multiple user requests years ago for a SPDIF volume control, something that I never really liked.

    I had originally planned to make an attenuation of 12 dB, to match the typical RMS of a DAW and thus avoid the use of either SPDIF volume or DAW channel gain to match the perceived volume to the DAW.

    What do you think?

    What kind of specific problem would that induce?

  • with the now introduced -6 db my Universal Audio Apollo system reads -12 db on this input

    before i had a very useable gain structure with the Kemper spdif volume set to 0, now its way to low

    this all makes no sense to me, please revert to the former spdif gain

    everybody who needs less gain can simply turn the vol knob of spdif, now set to 0 the spdif out gives way to less

    Output, not useable in my opinion

    youre suggestion is good, no spdif vol knob but a switch with -12 db

  • This is a dreadful error of judgement. My SPDIF is no longer useable as the signal is too low. Please rethink this and put a -12dB pad for those that need it. I have to revert to the previous release just to get it working again..

  • I have to revert to the previous release just to get it working again..

    Same here, very poor decision to 1. do this in the first place and 2. do it silently.

    Glad I had a week off studio because I was sick.

    If some people need to pad the S/PDIF Output Volume and can't be bothered to use the available control, give them a pad switch.

    But PLEASE PLEASE keep the option to stay 0dB!!! Otherwise I loose 2 precious outputs I use since 10 years.

  • So I must assume that the SPDIF would have been unusable from day one, if we have had a 6 dB lower level since?


    There is actually no defined 0 dB level when converting an analog input into a digital signal.


    You have no input volume control on your DAW to leverage?

    How do you control your reamping level in general?

  • It seems that a revert back to original and then add a volume control would be acceptable. I don't own SPDIF yet and from what I've seen on models I am interested in, they have SDPIF volume controls in their UI. But I always take additional options as a bonus even if some are redundant.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • So I must assume that the SPDIF would have been unusable from day one, if we have had a 6 dB lower level since?

    I would have noticed on day one and immediately complained.


    There is actually no defined 0 dB level when converting an analog input into a digital signal.

    Actually there is a much stricter 0dB level when converting analog to digital, it's called 0dBFS. But that's just nitpicking.

    You have no input volume control on your DAW to leverage?

    Why don't you ask those who have complained? ;)

    I for one want to be able to record exactly the digital level that hits the OUTPUT stage, without any pad.

    How do you control your reamping level in general?

    If I record Git Studio through S/PDIF, I want to be able to reamp using exactly this same level going back into the Profiler through S/PDIF. It's been 10 years I didn't have to worry about reamping levels. And now, for no good reason, you've changed that?

    If I ever had to do small changes to the reamping level, I'd do it in TotalMixFX. But I leave the recorded DI track in the DAW 100% untouched.


    Last but not least ... personally, I've never really understood why the Profiler has an S/PDIF Output Volume. The only "useful" application would be to reduce S/PDIF volume by e.g. 0.3dB to prevent certain audio interfaces or DAWs to show clipping indicator due to inter-sample peaks ... IF the signal ever hits these high levels.


    One last comment:

    I've always disliked the "-12dB RMS police" ... but now, as they are about to directly affect my workflow, I really hate them from the bottom of my heart.

  • If I record Git Studio through S/PDIF, I want to be able to reamp using exactly this same level going back into the Profiler through S/PDIF.

    Exactly this is what I appreciated to the max about the Kemper. Beautiful solution which helps me all the time and is super reliable and super easy to reproduce what is needed and has been done...


    Side note: I am not the professional who would know an easy way to adjust this now based on the "new feature" other than just "messing around with the levels" which most probably is not as accurate. But maybe somebody can educate me on that. Happy to take that lesson :/

  • Oh, seems like I forgot some more examples outside the reamping situation.


    1. User X had hooked up his Profiler through S/PDIF and started to jam over a backing track on Youtube. The rig he played peaked at around -6dB. In the DSP mixer of the audio interface, he could push the Profiler signal by up to 6dB so his sound sits nicely over the backing track.

    New situation: Now his Profiler signal goes to -12dB only and he can only recover 6dB in the DSP mixer. So now he has to turn down Youtube playback some and at the same time up his interface's monitor output to compensate. Why make things unnecessarily complicated?


    2. How do you know how "hot" the signal coming out of the Profiler is? If you think of a very soft signal, e.g. some very mellow playing without any strong transients, does that actually need a forced -6dB pad to please the -12dB RMS police? Hardly.

  • You have no input volume control on your DAW to leverage?

    How do you control your reamping level in general?

    I am not a ware of any way to reduce the signal level going in using the DAW. The level is set using the interface. The DAW only changes gain of the recorded signal. Therefore, I value the ability to control the input level on ALL Outputs.


    I agree that full strength consistent 0dbfs might be the best option for Reamping. However, I don’t like recording other signals too hot. I like to have plenty of headroom for mixing so keep my input signals around -12db ; sometimes lower. If I record Master Stereo or Master Mono over SPDIF the recorded signal Can be so high I need to pull the faders down to near the bottom of their travel when mixing unless I trim the audio in the DAW with a gain plugin. I like the option to trim this at source and save a significant amount of time in the DAW.


    I don’t reamp much although I do always record a DI signal as a safety. At the moment I record this trimmed to -12db then boost the output from the DAW fader to compensate if reamping. However, as I don’t reamp much I don’t really have a fixed workflow for it.