Are the Yamaha hs7 frfr?

There are many things to consider regarding monitoring and there are many good comments. Going slightly off topic from the OP:

There is a fundamental question regarding the feel, vibe, in the room(whatever you want to call it) aspect of playing live on a stage with other musicians. Guitarists are an odd lot IMO. The fact that many guitarists are not satisfied with hearing on stage what the audience hears in FOH is curious to me. I want to hear exactly, as much as possible, what the audience hears. I don't want a guitar cab as an on stage monitor anymore. I did that intially because that's what I had. I soon realized that the guitar cab resulted in very different sound than FOH. Tweaking a rig for both results in both of those sounds being compromised. This is what drove me to use a good PA monitor on stage for guitar. This way the sound of the rig is homogenous on stage and FOH. The Kabinet is not a solution for the same reason.

I think guitarists should evolve in their thinking, hearing and technique rather than be stuck with 'old' or possibly incorrect perceptions of what sounds good. Wanting to hear something different than what the audience hears should be a big red flag that the thinking needs to be adjusted.

Quote from lbieber

There are many things to consider regarding monitoring and there are many good comments. Going slightly off topic from the OP:

There is a fundamental question regarding the feel, vibe, in the room(whatever you want to call it) aspect of playing live on a stage with other musicians. Guitarists are an odd lot IMO. The fact that many guitarists are not satisfied with hearing on stage what the audience hears in FOH is curious to me. I want to hear exactly, as much as possible, what the audience hears. I don't want a guitar cab as an on stage monitor anymore. I did that intially because that's what I had. I soon realized that the guitar cab resulted in very different sound than FOH. Tweaking a rig for both results in both of those sounds being compromised. This is what drove me to use a good PA monitor on stage for guitar. This way the sound of the rig is homogenous on stage and FOH. The Kabinet is not a solution for the same reason.

I think guitarists should evolve in their thinking, hearing and technique rather than be stuck with 'old' or possibly incorrect perceptions of what sounds good. Wanting to hear something different than what the audience hears should be a big red flag that the thinking needs to be adjusted.

Yes, that's why I wrote I'd be more concerned with the end result (PA to audience ear or whatever to audience ear) I agree, the perfect scenario would be for what I hear on stage to be exactly what the audience hears and vice versa sound wise but not necessarily mix wise.

There are speakers manufactured that provide what is comparatively an amazing linear response.

The problem is that the cost of such speakers is such that only professionals that require such a true response, who use them as tools to make their living, can afford them.

Years ago, the group I was in was greatly assisted by the late Rupert Neve, (he started out running P.A. hire) who had speakers for research and development, test purposes. Ruler flat up to 40,000 kHz they featured ribbon tweeters.

But there are great difficulties in producing speakers that respond truly and are genuinely revealing simply over a typical human ears range, regardless of what the frequency response chart might allude. For instance, whilst the figure regarding bass response may seem impressive, and in a sense, true.

Below a certain level the actual phase of the speaker’s bass response is likely to be all over the place. The salient point being, it is difficult and complex to produce linear flat, uncoloured speakers, as they require very expensive components and huge investments in time, involving high development costs, ultimately passed down to the consumer.

So, unless one has an unlimited budget at one’s disposal, its best to buy the best monitors one can afford and provide an acoustically treated space in which to listen to them.

Most of us, have a less than ideal solution in both regards, but that can be compensated for to a large degree, if the user is experienced, genuinely understanding what they are hearing and as the previous post highlighted, know the speakers well.

Where they flatter or lack in trueness, with the user possessing interpretive skill’s to properly appreciate how adjustments they make will translate to the final playback medium. In this respect they are things that can be done that in many cases may help greatly.

For instance, if the speakers phase response is not great, and no subs are available, then utilising a high pass filter and limiting the low-end response of the material can mean a higher over sound level could be achieved, due to removing energy sapping low end content, that is not being reproduced well if at all. Lots of mastering engineers will do this prior to pressing and distribution.

Perhaps I can give a couple of analogies that might help clarify.

Photography, a hobby, is the the art of appreciating and understanding the quality of light as it falls on a subject, being able to control and translate that faithfully on to a limited medium.

Too much light will cause over exposure, to little light will cause underexposure. That is the point, there are limitations to the medium. Whilst sound can run into ultrasonic and infrasonic ranges, there are benefits to controlling that, so we do not reproduce sonics that are likely to be negatively represented by the playback devices of our target consumers.

Just as we wouldn’t want to develop over or under exposed pictures for viewers. Though there might be occasions where creative necessities and narratives dictate’s we might indeed utilise such extremes, this general truth holds well for both pictorial and sonic mediums of reproduction.

Years ago, Fender bass designer Leo Fender incorporated a foam mute in the tailpiece of his instruments produced in the fifies and sixties. Session bass player Carol Kaye, utilised and under and over foam mute in front of the tailpiece of her instrument to remove subsonic sound, likely to be detrimental to a recording.

Given that technologies move on, and things improve, I still believe that many recordings can benefit by trimming away frequencies that commonly used consumer devise will struggle to properly reproduce.

One of my great mentors would track recordings using no equalisation whatever. With a great sound in the live room, he would achieve his results by judicious placement of the mic in the sweet spot of the instruments projection of sound.

On occasions, swapping out a mic for another, better suited for the application and source. One of his recordings that earned him a Grammy, was so perfectly recorded, there was nothing the mastering engineer could adjust that would improve it. He transferred the recording flat.

So if you want flatness, look to your whole production chain and processes because usually there’s lots we can do to improve the operation of everything, quite apart from what equipment we possess.

In regard to the Yamaha speakers. By a strange coincidence a couple of weeks ago I visited my local Music Shop to see about a new guitar. I normally have a good chat with a friend of mine whilst down there and in doing so got to listen to a track recorded by my mentor on the very speakers you are interest in.

My initial impression was that they lacked bass and were flat sounding speakers likely to be ok as home recording monitors, but as I wrote lacked bass response. The cones are not 7” as one might imagine but 6 ½”. I normally listen to 8” woofers on my nearfield monitors.

Turning the volume up quite a bit louder they delivered a far better bass response altogether, and we started to enjoy listening to the track we had selected. Probably the Fletcher-Munson effect was involved for as volume increases, usually so does bass response.

However, when mixing sound, it’s not good to listen at higher volume levels for long periods (although I know of people who do this). Not only because of damaging ones hearing over time, but also because our awareness of the balance of sonorities in a mix can alter at differing sound levels, as I explained in the example above.

I understand that Yamaha manufacture a sub unit for these monitor speakers, and perhaps that is the reason why. If you purchase them, try them for a while and see if you might need to add a sub unit to extend the bass response for your playback system. Probably I would lend towards the 8” version of the speakers thinking the bass response in the basic monitors alone would be better.

But the bass response in the 7’s was excellent as the volume was markedly increased. I hadn’t visited the shop to listen to speakers, but trust this coincidence is of some service to you.

They seemed good for the money, but I would go for the HS 8’s for the reason described above.

In regard to the poster who wishes to hear in his monitors a representation of what is heard in the P.A. I have no argument, its great he knows what he wants.

Not everyone will want to hear that however, and many musicians will wish and actually need to individually hear specific elements of a mix in order to be able perform their role properly.

Actually, a great friend of mine, a good drummer was as far as anyone knows the first musician ever to ask for headphones in a studio recording. He wanted to hear the singer, because he was listening (often with an orchestra playing) for the spaces when the singer was not singing, because that meant he could place a drum fill without cutting across the singer’s emotive message in the song, even if the singers pickup started at the end of the bar before the next verse or chorus.

Today drummers are often surrounded by an innumerable number of toms and cymbals, such that if they produce a fill around the whole kit, and that is lifted in the mix, they are at the very least, likely to cut across the singer’s pickup and detrimentally distract from the powerful message and emotion of the song.

I’m not against lots of tom toms, but they have to find their place in a mix that enhances rather than detracts from the purpose of the overall production.

Avoiding choking the singer’s words with a fill required him to only hear the singer in his cans.

Quote from waraba

I have a pair of HS7 , these are great however do not expect 100Hz bass frequency to reflect fully the amp profile, it's very far from a 4x12 thump

Anyway they are perfect for recording & mixing, done hundreds of mixes on them, they are super reliable in terms of clarity .

I use a Kone on self made cab to get the thump & vibe while recording my guitars to complement the great stereo field

Get the sub for the HS7s. I have a pair of the HS7 speakers and bought the sub shortly after I got them. For me, that was worth every cent.

Quote from JEverly

Get the sub for the HS7s. I have a pair of the HS7 speakers and bought the sub shortly after I got them. For me, that was worth every cent.

That will almost certainly not be "flat" but probably sound great. Flat is not always better sounding, Most of us are used to hearing pleasantly colored speakers and systems. Having reference monitors that aren't perfectly flat doesn't mean you couldn't record a Grammy winning album with them. They're a reference. You have to get to know your speakers and know how they will sound comparatively with other systems, car stereos, earbuds etc. You'll reference multiple speakers. It doesn't help that you're using $10,000.00 monitors if it sounds bad through everyone's stereos. You have to create the sound you want on an album. Play a great sounding favorite album of yours through an analyzer. It won't be "flat".

Quote from Dynochrome

That will almost certainly not be "flat" but probably sound great. Flat is not always better sounding, Most of us are used to hearing pleasantly colored speakers and systems. Having reference monitors that aren't perfectly flat doesn't mean you couldn't record a Grammy winning album with them. They're a reference. You have to get to know your speakers and know how they will sound comparatively with other systems, car stereos, earbuds etc. You'll reference multiple speakers. It doesn't help that you're using $10,000.00 monitors if it sounds bad through everyone's stereos. You have to create the sound you want on an album. Play a great sounding favorite album of yours through an analyzer. It won't be "flat".

It depends on how loud you turn the sub up. It is only going to produce what you give it. The speakers sound good. You can hear the lower frequencies better with the sub. I worked on a rap song for a guy I work with. This is not a genera of music I listen to. I did a lot of listening and asked for some reference tracks. I am not sure I could have done as good of a job on that song without the sub. There is a lot of low end in that type of music. I listened to it on several different systems to make sure it was matching the reference tracks. When I let him hear it was really surprised at how well it came out.

Quote from Dynochrome

You have to get to know your speakers and know how they will sound comparatively with other systems, car stereos, earbuds etc.

Car stereos are the killer for me. I do what I think is a great mix in my "studio" and then take a copy into my car and...yuk! So I have over time learnt what and have to adjust in my mix to account for it.

So very true!!

Quote from Dynochrome

You have to get to know your speakers and know how they will sound comparatively with other systems, car stereos, earbuds etc. You'll reference multiple speakers.

Quote from V8guitar

Car stereos are the killer for me. I do what I think is a great mix in my "studio" and then take a copy into my car and...yuk! So I have over time learnt what and have to adjust in my mix to account for it.

So very true!!

As Dyno pointed out earlier in this thread, you need to know your room too. In reality the room will play a much bigger role than the speakers for most people working at home. You could put some seriously top end 6 figure studio monitors in a 14x14x7 room and you would still have no idea how the mix will translate to other systems. Most people are blissfully unaware of how big a role the room plays and are therefore sucked into throwing money at "better” gear to solve the problem. The kind of small square rooms that most of us are stuck with at home are an absolute nightmare for low end monitoring. The sound can change dramatically by simply moving a speaker or your listening position a few inches.

Quote from V8guitar

Car stereos are the killer for me. I do what I think is a great mix in my "studio" and then take a copy into my car and...yuk! So I have over time learnt what and have to adjust in my mix to account for it.

So very true!!

I am used to hearing a lot of major label music through my headset and car stereo. It's my main reference because of that. I'll play some albums I consider great in the style of my recording then slip my mix in the playlist. I'll know right away what's needed usually. If it fits right in I know I'm getting there. I've learned to mix from my probably not flat monitoring room to get it to sound good on a variety of systems. Proper compression has a factor in it sounding "professional". Sometimes I'll ask someone else in the car to pick out which song is my mix from various songs he/she doesn't know that is maybe not necessarily a music person and see if they can pick which sounds "different" then ask them why they suspect that. Then you get an honest opinion from a typical standard listener that isn't nitpicking sub sonics or the drum mix etc. People are also much more likely to give you their honest opinion if they don't think it's you that did the mix.

This fits right in with what I was writing that being flat isn't as important as knowing your references. Doesn't matter if you have $120,000.00 monitoring system if it sounds like crap through people's car stereo or if it came on the radio is noticeably lacking and out of place. My monitoring system was less than 2% of that cost but because I've cross referenced so much, I know what to do. I detect when the bass sounds in a way that it will be too much for a system with a sub or high end will be strident in headphones etc.

My old home Focal Monitors (1 of them) died today after almost 17 years of duty and I went to buy New ones. I've tried a lot in the Shop and ended up with 2 Setups in the shortlist: Yamaha HS7+sub and HS8 alone (tried with sub as well, but that was waaaay to much). The HS8 came home with me, and the main reason was the definition of the highs (!!!). On the 7 they sounded way too compressed compared to the 8.

I must say that I use them only for practicing or some occasional jam with a friend/my wife, no serious mixing out of an 8 tracks digital recorder to save some idea. Any serious job is done in a proper studio.

I like very much what I hear so far, now I understand why you see those boxes in every single control room around the world (obviously together with some high $$$ ones)

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Quote from Kellerblues

The HS8 came home with me

Great choice I would'nt jam too much on them , especially if a drum set is involved, you should much better buy a Kone and a small 12 cab or a kabinet , with a small poweramp.

Quote from waraba

Great choice I would'nt jam too much on them , especially if a drum set is involved, you should much better buy a Kone and a small 12 cab or a kabinet , with a small poweramp.

No drum at home, just fun with a couple of drinks. If we need a drum track I connect the Laptop and switch Real Drummer on

Quote from Kellerblues

My old home Focal Monitors (1 of them) died today after almost 17 years of duty and I went to buy New ones. I've tried a lot in the Shop and ended up with 2 Setups in the shortlist: Yamaha HS7+sub and HS8 alone (tried with sub as well, but that was waaaay to much). The HS8 came home with me, and the main reason was the definition of the highs (!!!). On the 7 they sounded way too compressed compared to the 8.

I must say that I use them only for practicing or some occasional jam with a friend/my wife, no serious mixing out of an 8 tracks digital recorder to save some idea. Any serious job is done in a proper studio.

I like very much what I hear so far, now I understand why you see those boxes in every single control room around the world (obviously together with some high $$$ ones)

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This is interesting to me. I consulted a couple of guys that do a lot of tracking and mixing and have experience in doing this in studios when I bought my speakers. For the room size I work in they recommended the HS7 speakers and left it up to me on the sub. I ended up with a pair of the HS7 speakers with the sub. The sub has a volume knob on it so you can set the level for your room. What is interesting to me is that I don't hear any sort of compressed sound on the high end. I think the HS7 and HS8 have the same tweeter in them. The only difference is the woofer. I really like the speaker setup that I have. I dialed in the sub to my room and the volume I typically use the system at and all works well for me. I listened to some mixes on many devices to determine what I needed to do in my room and volume wise to get a good representation in my room.

Quote from JEverly

This is interesting to me. I consulted a couple of guys that do a lot of tracking and mixing and have experience in doing this in studios when I bought my speakers. For the room size I work in they recommended the HS7 speakers and left it up to me on the sub. I ended up with a pair of the HS7 speakers with the sub. The sub has a volume knob on it so you can set the level for your room. What is interesting to me is that I don't hear any sort of compressed sound on the high end. I think the HS7 and HS8 have the same tweeter in them. The only difference is the woofer. I really like the speaker setup that I have. I dialed in the sub to my room and the volume I typically use the system at and all works well for me. I listened to some mixes on many devices to determine what I needed to do in my room and volume wise to get a good representation in my room.

Well, the size of the box is different and that has an influence on the sound. In the shop I have been switching back and forth between both and the difference was evident. The HF dome is powered by 35W in the HS7 and 45W in the HS8, this could also have an impact. As said, I do no mixing at home, only having fun with it. Even when I learn for a session, I use headphones to be in the same conditions I will then be in the studio.