Make "Ignore lock" button in rig settings

  • I use alot of performances. Usually one for each song. But each performance usually has a rig that is the same in every performance. If i want to tweak this, I have to tweak it for every performance. Im sure it's not only me struggeling with this.


    A solution is to use the lock function. But say i want to tweak the gain with lock on the amp-section. I only want to tweak the gain for all gained out rigs. This is not possible, right?


    If the rig-menu had a "lock section" that is a menu with buttons for all(or some) of the different things that can be locked. Say one for Input, Stomps, Stack and Effects. And say you tick the "bypass lock" on the Stack section.


    This could actually make the lock function be used to tweak several choosen rigs in performance mode.

  • You can just tweak it once then copy the tweaked version to all slots.

    Yes, but with 10-20 performances that is alot of copying. Switching back and forth based on some different scenarios is time consuming. My solution to this now is to have 2 sets of performances with small changes (different gain, EQ and cabinet) but this is alot to mange over time. Making a change menas i have to copy everything i do over to the other set of performances aswell.

  • OK, sorry, I thought you were referring to having the same rig in several slots of the same performance. I see what you mean but I think your solution would be unnecessarily complicated and liable to cause a great deal of confusion for users.

    I would suggest a better solution would be to ask for a bulk or batch edit option in Rig Manager. This would be easy to understand an super easy to make the kind of adjustments you want.


    Image it like this:


    Enter batch edit mode in RM.


    Next navigate to the first performance that needs a changed. Select any slots containing the specific rig.


    Navigate to any other performances and repeat until all rigs are selected.


    Once all rigs are selected perform edit(s) in batch edit window.


    Finally save all changes with a single store command.




    This would have the advantage of being a clear editing workflow and not liable to be overlooked when not trying to edit. There are lots of occasions already where users report strange behaviour only to find out that they have something accidentally locked.


    If my batch edit idea had a well designed interface all the performances and the rigs within these could be edited from a single screen without the need to keep going in and out of individual performances to find them. Again, imagine like this:


    Bulk edit mode opens as window with Column 1 containing Performance name, Column 2 - 6 contain the individual rigs in each slot.

    Any performances to be edited would be added as additional rows in the grid. This way you would see maybe 10 rows (performances) and 50 rigs (slots) all available to be edited instantly with clear visual indicators of which are being edited at any given moment.


    The snag with this idea is that the different rigs may contain different Stomps and FX so the editor wouldn't know what to do with these. For this reason the functionality would need to be limited to common items which basically leaves Rig, Input, Amp, Cabinet as potentially available for batch edit.


    I'm just thinking aloud and there may be other reasons why my alternative wouldn't work but I think it would be a much more user friendly way to approach the issue. I agree that batch editing would be useful though.

  • Yeah something liket this is what i need. Though, it would be most useful if it was possible to do on the fly without the need of the rig manager. I agree that the lock-functunality could be abit too complicated, and I like your idea of a batch edit option. Do you think it would be too complicated to have the batch-edit mode in the kemper interface?


    Like, say you are in performance mode, you enter the "edit" meny, and besides the "arrange" button, there is a "batch edit" button. While in this mode, everything you tweak in say slot 1 of a performance also changes the co-responding rigs in the same slot in other performances. This way you can start sorting your performances based on what you want to change. So say slot 1 always is for rythm and slot 2 always is for solo, 3 for clean etc.


    Then you can watch the performance mode more like a grid. With rows and columns connected in a way.


    Hope it makes sense! Just brainstorming aswell

  • I hear what you are saying but I think the hardware screen would make this very dangerous.


    Let's say you have Fender Clean 1 in several places and you want to perform the same edit on all of them simultaneously. If absolutely all of your performances have Fender Clean 1 in slot 1 then everything is OK. But suppose you have Vox Clean or Fender Clean 2 in slot 1 on one or more performances. The edit to Fender Clean 1 would now also affect Fender Clean and Vox Clean in the performances where they are in slot 1. It would be VERY easy to forget that one or more performances have a different rig in slot 1 than all your other rigs and screw up some performances accidentally. For on the fly editing simplicity is key. Most on the fly edits are performed under some sort of stress (ie during a rehearsal or on a gig) where mistakes are easily made and the consequences could be disastrous.


    I would definitely not want that kind of potential mass cock up to be available from the hardware. In RM (where I have a back up on hand to reload if it all goes Pete Tong then yes but on a gig definitely not.

  • okey yeah good point.


    Another possibility would be to have a rig connection between browser and performance mode. if the rig is edited in browser, it is also edited where it happens to be placed in performance mode. could even be a option when clicking 'store' , to have a button 'update linked rigs'

  • I hear what you are saying but that isn’t going to happen. The entire workflow and logic of the KPA is to keep the two separate so that Browser is a library and Performances are where they get used. The basic logic is that you might want to use a rig based on another rig but slightly different in one performance to another. Linking them back to the browser would break this fundamental logic so I would be shocked if Kemper agreed to it.


    This is one of the difficulties of using a one Performance per song workflow. The Kemper works best when used more like a traditional amp and pedal board with a minimum number of performances. Not saying this is right or wrong but it is how it is.


    the only way I can see to achieve what you want is to do it by having a Batch edit feature in RM. Now that RM can be run on an iPad or iPhone this might still be a possibility for on the fly bulk tweaks.

  • Another possibility would be to have a rig connection between browser and performance mode. if the rig is edited in browser, it is also edited where it happens to be placed in performance mode. could even be a option when clicking 'store' , to have a button 'update linked rigs'

    This is similar to the common problem of text editors and whether one copies graphics into a document or links to them. Most text editors have addressed this by allowing both and the user determines which method to use. Both are valid use cases.


    I'm not a betting man, but I would bet that Kemper's document control group links graphics rather than copying them.

  • okey yeah good point.


    Another possibility would be to have a rig connection between browser and performance mode. if the rig is edited in browser, it is also edited where it happens to be placed in performance mode. could even be a option when clicking 'store' , to have a button 'update linked rigs'

    Linking browse and performance rigs basically means you will lose the original profile permanently.


    Unless you save a copy elsewhere.


    At least for me, I never edit while in browse. I’ll drag a rig to a performance slot and go to town.


    Then I can a/b and decide if the changes actually do what I wanted.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • okey yeah good point.


    Another possibility would be to have a rig connection between browser and performance mode. if the rig is edited in browser, it is also edited where it happens to be placed in performance mode. could even be a option when clicking 'store' , to have a button 'update linked rigs'

    I think it's a strange way to do it.

    I wanna mean, if you use performances, that's because you've got a need. I assume you won't put only one rig in slot 1 of performance 1, and so on....

    You gonna built a performance with the same combo going from clean to crunch to solo or you're going to change stack to increase gain...

    Or you built a performance following the song, in intro, acoustic guitar, on verse fender clean, with a marshall after and the same gainy one plus delay at 500ms + drive + shaper + EQ....

    You work directly in performance mode to do this, i don't go back to browser mode to work on it and push it back in performance....


    Why not make a link to have the information coming back to browser mode from performance ? I see two disadvantages ;


    - You'll loose the original (and sometimes it was better before ;(8o)

    - I've got the same rig into 2 different performances slots. If all is linked together it ain't gonna work. My rigs and my settings are totally different between them....Which one has to go back to browser mode :/

  • I also use the same base rig for multiple performances. Each rig is slightly different depending on the song or purpose of the performance.


    Which rig gets priority? If it becomes a 1 for 1, then 40 performance could translate to as many as 200 rigs in browse. All just variations of the same thing.


    Hail no.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I assume OP's Goal was to link same rig's changes.


    If you change settings in "Marshally" Rig in Performance 1 Slot 3 it goes back directly to "Marshally" browser rig but if you use it in P4/S2 ; P18/S4, etc... What is the behavior ? the information should go back down and should edit all "Marshally" Rigs....

  • LOL this is the concept of linking drawings as I mentioned above. Both cases are valid and could be made available for the user to choose. It seems there is a bit of an over reaction to having a simple choice. If you don't like one of them, then don't use it.


    Of course, it doesn't matter at this point since there is no choice available.

    Edited once, last by lbieber ().

  • the information should go back down and should edit all "Marshally" Rigs....

    Which is psychotic in my opinion. You would never be able to fine-tune a rig for a specific purpose. Not just effects, but something as nuanced as Definition. In some of my performances, a rig has a Definition value of 4. In others (different slot or entire performance), Definition may be right at 7. Or I use a different cab or amp EQ or.......on and on.


    Which gets priority? Or, you're back to a 1 for 1 relationship with Browse. Which to me then makes one of the modes (Browse/Performance) both effectively redundant and completely unmanageable all at once.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Don't get me wrong, i don't agree with that, this is a logical link behavior...


    I join you it's coming quickly complicated....Plus, Morph options and pedals selection. You can have a Rig that FS1 select drive + EQ and the same rig that FS1 select comp, etc....