Not Good Sound Using Kemper Profiling Amp Live

    Hello,

    I am looking for some help regarding using my KPA Live. I took delivery of the KPA a couple of days ago and I have to say that I have been really disappointed with how it sounds live plugging it into the FX return on my Cornford MK 50H tube/valve head into an old 2x12 Marshall cab fitted with 2 G12M Greenbacks.

    I plug my guitar into the KPA Input. I then connect the Monitor Out on the KPA to the FX Return on my Cornford MK50. I have also adjusted the sensitivity on the KPA to prevent it from clipping the input. I have also disabled all the speaker cabs in the Master/Output section of the KPA. These adjustments have improved the sound quite a bit but it still sounds harsh and not very good at all.

    Most of the sounds I heard on the net before buying it sounded great but they were pretty much all in a recording situation and not live.


    I read on the Harmony Central forum where someone called mbarn3065 said:

    There is a work around (to get rid of the speaker cab from the Kemper Profiles):

    Load a profile with a blank cab and then push the lock button.
    After that what ever profile you load it will use the no cab, it works great!


    That is what I do and it sounds great with my Marshall cabinets loaded with greenbacks.


    You can find profiles with No Cabs on the Kemper Rig Exchange.


    http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/l..._Download.html

    1. I am not quite sure what mbarn3065 means here as I haven’t had the KPA more than a few days. Does anyone know what he means by ‘load a profile with a blank cab then push the lock button’?

    2. I have also read that using a Pre Amp only Profile might help but the vast majority of the Profiles I have found are with Power Amp & Speaker cab. I don’t have many amps nor opportunity to Profile amps myself so I want to use the many Profiles people have uploaded onto the Rig Exchange. How can I filter the Rig Exchange to identify which Profiles are Pre Amp only?

    3. I know some people suggest using an FRFR amp/speaker set up. I would prefer to use my Valve/Tube Head and 2x12 guitar cab but if FRFR will get a significantly better sound then I will go this way. In your experiences will this get a better sound?

    4. Are there any other tips you experienced users can give me to help me achieve a better sound for live use?

    Sorry for the length of this post but I am sure the KPA can and should sound better than I am currently able to get it to.

    Cheers :)

    I have a powered FRFR Monitor EV ELX112p.......two pieces plus a foot controller......saves you an entire piece of gear to carry. It is also lighter and you have no tube issues to worry about.


    But, best of all you can use any "cab" you want. Wanna use a 10" Celection Blue with a Champ? Go ahead. 4x12 Marshall or Orange....Go ahead.


    FRFR is the way for me....plus I know I am sending FOH the same sounds I spent time dialing in.

    Let me tell some facts and features of the Monitor Output in version 1.1.1. We have recently done some listening tests with the improved Monitor features. We achieve excellent results when the Monitor Output ("MonitorCabOff" set) is driving a guitar cabinet by a solid state power amp.


    Still, we cannot anticipate the exact sound of the cab that you use, but you can adjust the sound by our inproved Monitor Equalizer. We tried it with a Marshall 4x12 with Celestion Vintage 30 (the VW Beetle of the speakers) and it was perfect. We haven't touch the Monitor EQ in a day.


    Doing this you get a great monitor sound by your guitar cabinet for monitoring on stage, while you still deliver the perfect virtual cab sound to the front PA. And it works with any profile that you like.


    By nature you will not recreate the exact "amp in the room" sound. But how could it be possible to exactly recreate an AC 30 sound by you 4x12 cabinet? You had to have the original cabinet, of course.


    This Monitor sound is made to be driven by linear amps, typically solid state or digital power amps. Should have at least 500 W to get a satifying loudness. Don't clip it!


    The Monitor sound is not optimized fo tube power amps. They often colour the sound in an artistic way. All a bit different, so again we cannot anticipate it. When you run a tube power amp, you will have to equalize it by the Monitor EQ to suit your needs.



    I would still recomment to use linear speakers to listen to the same sound that you finally present to your audience. Still you will be able to create a massive and tube-like guitar cabinet sound.

    I can also attest to the FRFR setup. I run live through the FRFR for stage monitor and to FOH. I also have an FRFR at home to compare to my tube amp and it sounds better than great. The response and feel is just what I hoped for. I am still working on volume set points (Kemper, FRFR), but I could not be more pleased with the accuraccy and tone quality this setup produces. It is not close it is spot on.

    "More Guitar in the Monitors" :thumbup:

    Summarizing what everyone else said...the KPA has a very authentic and accurate output. It's your tube amp that is altering the tone. That's what tube amps do. The KPA is like an awesome CD recording of an amp. What would a CD sound like played through a guitar amp? A FRFR system would sound great in comparison.


    The KPA can be used as a preamp/poweramp only sound source (cab off) BUT needs a linear response amp to drive a guitar cabinet. Guitar tube amps are VERY non-linear (and sound great driven by a guitar) but the KPA already re-creates that characteristic and sending its output through a tube amp over-characterizes the tone. If you have access to a PA Amp, try it with your cab and see if that helps. Also try a powered PA speaker if you get a chance...thats how the KPA was designed to work most effectively.


    bd

    Quote from ckemper

    We achieve excellent results when the Monitor Output ("MonitorCabOff" set) is driving a guitar cabinet by a solid state power amp.

    YOU CAN BET ON THAT !


    I'm using a Matrix GT1000FX through different guitar cabs (4x12 Greenbacks ,2x12 Alnicos) and it sounds great through all these different cabs.


    Most impressing results however combining Mainout to FRFR (RCF) with Monitor out ("MonitorCabOff" set) to the Matrix and a guitar cab.


    Clear, precise and powerfull sound, but still that "natural" feeling you expect from a good tubeamp.


    I own a lot of good tubeamps, but since i've been using that setup combining FRFR with a guitar cab, i've not been playing those amps anymore.


    I noticed that not all poweramp sections of guitaramps work well with the KPA.


    Thanks to BRUNO for "guiding" to the Matrix :D :thumbup:

    Another vote for "non-FRFR" although I'm sure that works great.
    I originally plugged the KPA in the fx return of a Mesa Dual rectifier into a Mesa 4x12 XL which worked fine but -as already mentioned here- it colored the sound quite a bit and not in a good way.
    I switched to a Matrix GT1000FX into the same Mesa 4x12 and I'm in tonal heaven now :)


    So yes, the culprit in your case is most likely your poweramp...

    Quote from ckemper

    We achieve excellent results when the Monitor Output ("MonitorCabOff" set) is driving a guitar cabinet by a solid state power amp.

    Would the amp in question by any chance be the add-on Kemper power amp that's to be added in the back of KPA... if so, very interesting.

    christoph - I couldn't use the monitor output when I tested through a valve poweramp driven guitar cab, the signal was just too hot and I'm not going to go through every single profile and adjust the volume just for the sake of monitor out. Please bring back master volume control for the monitor out.

    Quote from Per

    christoph - I couldn't use the monitor output when I tested through a valve poweramp driven guitar cab, the signal was just too hot and I'm not going to go through every single profile and adjust the volume just for the sake of monitor out. Please bring back master volume control for the monitor out.

    What??? You can adjust monitor out easily with version 1.11.

    Per is right .
    Something happens with version 1.1.1 regarding monitorcab off and master volume control when playing through really amp and cab .
    With previous version I managed pretty nice sounds , but with 1.1.1 , even if I switch on the "monitorcab off" function in master volume window , Kemper cabs are still there .
    In other words I cannot get rid of Kemper cabs ....
    Any ideas???

    1988 Branko Radulovic Hand Made Strat in Macedonia (SFRJ)

    2006 Steve Vai vwh moded with SS frets and Sustainac 2006 (Japan)

    2008 Fender YJM , moded (USA)

    2010 Tom Andersons Drop Top 2010 (made in California)

    2017 Charvel GG sig Caramelised Ash (USA)

    2022 Gibson ES 335 2011 Custom Shop Cherry of course ( Memphis)

    Hi guys, there does appear to be a bit of residual cab sound still left even with the cab off selected in the Monitor Output screen. If you hold down the cab button then once the cab options come up on the screen press the cab button again it will show the cab as off. I can hear a change in the sound when you do this.However, if you intend to use the main outputs then this will remove the cab from here as well so may not work for you..
    Cheers

    You just need to adjust the eq on the monitor out (master menu). On FW 1.1.1 the eq on monitor out has been adjusted to +2db on the mids following the corrections that most people was doing.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    For what it's worth, I use amp and cab, as well as FRFR live. And also fwiw, my kemper sounds absolutely glorious with my VHT 2902 power amp, however these are some of the most neutral and powerful amps ever made, they sound insane though. That is my Monitor out signal, while one of my Main outs goes to a mackie hd1531 that sits in front of me. Then, another Main out or 2 to FOH... Absolutely awesome and I get the best of, well, all 3 worlds :D

    Quote from VESmedic1

    For what it's worth, I use amp and cab, as well as FRFR live. And also fwiw, my kemper sounds absolutely glorious with my VHT 2902 power amp, however these are some of the most neutral and powerful amps ever made, they sound insane though. That is my Monitor out signal, while one of my Main outs goes to a mackie hd1531 that sits in front of me. Then, another Main out or 2 to FOH... Absolutely awesome and I get the best of, well, all 3 worlds :D

    My theory is the VHTs much closer to FRFR than other power amps. This is why the Kemper likes them more :D

    I must say I was wrong , wrong 100 % in my previous post .
    Following CK's and advice from other guys in this thread , It took me 7,5 seconds to adjust monitor out volume and belonged eq .
    ( i find that monitor volume , bass and mids were was on max or pretty close to it , that's why my sound sucks )
    now I have more than GOOD , and 99,99 % % natural , organic sound using Kemper through my hand wired 50 w amp and Mesa 2x12 horizontal cab !!
    also , I am using amp/cab sound as a reference to make a more organic sound on my QSC , by changing original cabs from profiles on the first place .


    CK for President !!! :thumbup:

    1988 Branko Radulovic Hand Made Strat in Macedonia (SFRJ)

    2006 Steve Vai vwh moded with SS frets and Sustainac 2006 (Japan)

    2008 Fender YJM , moded (USA)

    2010 Tom Andersons Drop Top 2010 (made in California)

    2017 Charvel GG sig Caramelised Ash (USA)

    2022 Gibson ES 335 2011 Custom Shop Cherry of course ( Memphis)

    Edited 2 times, last by Rescator ().

    Quote from Rescator

    I must say I was wrong , wrong 100 % in my previous post .
    Following CK's and advice from other guys in this thread , It took me 7,5 seconds to adjust monitor out volume and belonged eq .
    ( i find that monitor volume , bass and mids were was on max or pretty close to it , that's why my sound sucks )
    now I have more than GOOD , and 99,99 % % natural , organic sound using Kemper through my hand wired 50 w amp and Mesa 2x12 horizontal cab !!
    also , I am using amp/cab sound as a reference to make a more organic sound on my QSC , by changing original cabs from profiles on the first place .


    CK for President !!! :thumbup:

    :thumbup:

    I started this thread as initially I was a bit disappointed with the sound of the KPA through my tube amp Fx return and 2x12 cab fitted with Celestion Greenbacks. Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread including C Kemper.

    I have tried pretty much every way to connect the KPA for live use including tube amp - guitar cab, solid state amp - guitar cab, FRFR etc. The conclusions I have come to based on this are that the KPA does exactly what it says on the tin to use a U.K phrase i.e it faithfully reproduces the sound of the amp you profile. It does this with amazing accuracy so if the amp you profile doesn’t sound very good it will not sound very good but if the amp profiled sounds amazing then the KPA will sound amazing.

    It also totally gives you that ‘amp in the room’ sound better than anything I have ever heard before. However, I have concluded that the ‘amp in the room’ sound is not what I am looking for at the moment so I have returned it for refund.

    Something else I would like to say before I sign off is that this forum has a lot of really helpful people so once again many thanks for your input.

    Cheers :thumbup: