Two or three tremolo springs?

I use three springs with .010 sets on Strats. What gauge strings are on your guitars?

Keep in mind that with 2 springs you could possibly achieve the same amount of tension as with 3 springs that are not screwed in as much (for lower tension).

I find I can get the same results with 2 or 3 springs easily (also using 009-042 gauges).

I prefer to setup my vibrato units according to Carl Verheyen's setup routine.

First, I always float the bridge. Second, it depends on the type of bridge(6 screws or 2 post for Fenders). I use 3 springs on 6 screw trems whether 0.09. 0.095, 0.010. The 6 screw trem is a different animal than the 2 point and is much stiffer no matter how you set it up. I use 2 springs on a 2 point trem to get into Jeff Beck controlled pitch with bar territory. One potential issue with the Beck-like setup is that even medium strength plucking will cause the gently floating bridge to momentarily vibrate out of tune. I believe it is why Beck picked so lightly, especially since he switched over. The light picking aspect has a nice side effect in that I generally want a hotter amp which allows for a larger clean to mean range with the volume knob and plucking technique. Also you can get chorusy effects out of the lightly floating bridge based on how hard you pluck. Check out Blanket from Live at Ronnie Scott's.

deleted

Does it make any difference? The strings are balancing the tension of the strings and so whether its 2 springs at higher tension or 3 at lower, the overall tension would be the same?

So are you likely to feel any difference? String gauge surely will be a much bigger factor??

Keen to see what people discover!

Quote from Morph

Could be, the trem with two strings feels much more flexible than the three spring ones, stays in tune as well and is more fun, I’m going to wait for a string change to put my hypothesis to the test.

I think your focus is wrong - Suhr's are good, Charvel's are great ( only saying that because I can't afford a Suhr:) ).

Have you checked scale length between the 2 guitars, which would impact tension and therefore feel? This I would hazard a guess would have more of an impact.

You will only know if you remove the 3rd spring on the same guitar or add a 3rd to the Charvel and even then I guess your mind might tell you it feels different

At least in my non-scientific experience, the difference of adding one extra spring isn't that great.

Is it a little 'stiffer'.....*shrug* I guess. Different guitars? Who knows. Scale length, how much string is behind the nut, bridge design.....it all adds up.

The less resistance to change also affects how bent notes sound against unbent. A full step bend at the 8 fret B to match a fretted high E at the fifth will end up flat. The bridge will move forward and the unison bend will be *just* that much farther out with less stiffness.

That said.....I'd just play the damned things.

Quote from Ruefus

That said.....I'd just play the damned things.

Ha!!

Two springs

Quote from V8guitar

Does it make any difference? The strings are balancing the tension of the strings and so whether its 2 springs at higher tension or 3 at lower, the overall tension would be the same?

So are you likely to feel any difference? String gauge surely will be a much bigger factor??

Keen to see what people discover!

I understand your balancing comment, but it does not apply as far as force required to move the balanced bridge.

So, it makes a BIG difference. I think, with the claw adjusted properly, the 2 spring setup results in the springs being in a more stretched state vs 3 spring - one difference. The springs are in a different resting state. Any bridge movement requires less force due to less tension from the springs. It was not intuitive to me either, but this is the case. String gauge plays a role in the balance point/claw adjusment and will make it feel stiffer, but it is not the major factor. But I only setup this way with strings in the 0.009 to 0.011 range. I'm sure much heavier strings will create other issues.

Oblique bends are an issue. If the stationary string is fingered(not an open string) then I compensate by slighty pulling the 'stationary' string to sound in tune with the bent note. This is not perfect but plenty good for certain types of bends. Definitely a problem for precise pedal steel type bends or bends held against a note for long duration. For faster rock stuff, it is all part of the charm.

I use anything from 2 (with a trem-stop) to 4 due to my heavy hand. I always put a thin roll of foam inside to get rid of spring noise.

Quote from BayouTexan

I use anything from 2 (with a trem-stop) to 4 due to my heavy hand. I always put a thin roll of foam inside to get rid of spring noise.

Trem stop? Worst piece of equipment ever.

Foam goes inside of what? You shouldn't have spring noise on a trem that is setup correctly. IME, noise comes from the attachment ends of the springs when all tension is removed from the spring. A proper setup does not allow that to happen.

Quote: "noise comes from the attachment ends of the springs when all tension is removed from the spring. A proper setup does not allow that to happen."

Fender make a wide range of instruments over a large compass of price points. The only time I have experienced genuine spring noise, emanating from the springs themselves is many years ago with the Japanese instruments from their range.

It would appear therefore that not all Fender vibrato unit springs are equal and third party suppliers involved under certain circumstances. So think its worth anytime someone purchases additional spring to ensure they are genuine Fender American parts intended for your particular model or if they experience noise obtain proper replacements.

Honesty compels me to confess that over time I have tried all variants of spring numbers and fully appreciate the advantages, issues and considerations germane to this thread. Although the difference between two and three springs can be to large degree mitigated by adjustment of the body spring claw, minimising the variation to all but those sensitively accustomed to a specific set up.

Continuing the vein of honest admission, I tend to adjust myself to the instrument I am actually playing, rather than insisting that any instrument is precisely set up to a particular, singular, exacting specification. The reason for this is twofold. The number of instruments that pass through my hands and that such small differences allowed to exist, actively contribute to sonic differentials along with tending to move me to play the instrument in a slightly different manner. Adding to the instruments hallmark characteristics and why I would choose one instrument for a particular musical style over another.

My final confession, is that as a Gibson enthusiast, the Fender Stratocasters are fitted with five springs to effectively make them into a hard tailed instrument.

Though I am in good company in doing so.

Quote from lbieber

Trem stop? Worst piece of equipment ever.

Foam goes inside of what? You shouldn't have spring noise on a trem that is setup correctly. IME, noise comes from the attachment ends of the springs when all tension is removed from the spring. A proper setup does not allow that to happen.

I use trem-stops on two of my floating FR bridges. If a string pops then the others stay in tune. And I don't have a tech with a spare guitar waiting backstage.

If I don't want spring noise then...

Those are all good comments and I was only kidding, sort of, about the trem stop.

My two spring comments are mainly related, as I mentioned earlier, to setting up a 2 point Strat to do the Jeff Beck 'thing'. This reqires a very specific setup with many pros and cons. For a floating bridge, three springs or more results in a more stable bridge. 2 springs allows for a very delicate trem that can be manipulated extremely easily and that can be knocked out of tune simply by plucking strings too hard.

Quote: “My two spring comments are mainly related, as I mentioned earlier, to setting up a 2 point Strat to do the Jeff Beck 'thing'.”

I imagined that to be the case.

Quote: “For a floating bridge, three springs or more results in a more stable bridge. 2 springs allows for a very delicate trem that can be manipulated extremely easily and that can be knocked out of tune simply by plucking strings too hard.”

Would that be modern two-point Vibrato unit?

Chris Kinman fixed Hank Marvin’s vibrato tuning problems.

The precise details are a bit technical but in short, he is a great believer in the original design Leo Fender created.

Hank usually tours with three guitars each set up with different gauges, heavy strings for the old hits, medium for more modern tracks and light gauge 10’s for more bendy things.

Chris retro fitted Hanks instruments with the original design style of vibrato unit, modifying that area of the instrument so he could play quite a while without tuning issues, usually with 3 hour concerts.

If you are interested, scroll though Chris’s blogs till you come to his explanation regarding Fender vibrato units. Understanding what is really going on with the different designs of vibrato unit may help with your tuning issues.

Perfect Guitar | Kinman - Perfect Guitar

Look for "Strat Bridge Topics (IMPORTANT)" and scroll through.

Also" keeping in tune" and "retrofitting a Strat Bridge".

Heres's Hank doing his beautifully toned "human voice" imitation vibrato thing, almost all the time.

THE SHADOWS, "The Final Tour" / "Theme From The Deer Hunter" - YouTube

Good Luck!

Thanks for the info and links. To answeryour question.

Yes, I am referring to the 2 point Fender trem.

To be clear, I don't have any tuning problems with a 2 point trem and 2 springs. Just stating that it is very lightly balanced and therefore is sensitive.