Playing Through Another Players Amp

  • Upcoming gig where I was just told they want me to play through an earlier bands amp. I have always used an FRFR speaker as my onstage amp and could always get more volume pushed through my stage monitor from the mixing board. I am very nervous about trying to use the Kemper through a traditional amp setup as I haven't used a real amp in about 25 years.


    Reading through other threads I found the following but have lot's of questions.


    *Short-press the Cab button to disable the cab section altogether (for all outputs)


    Does that mean the Cabinet button in the Stack section on the front of the Profiler Rack? or is it some other button?

    Will short-pressing that button then disable the Cabinets for all other presets as well?

    All other presets will have the cabinets off until I short-press the Cabinet button again? Even if say if the Kemper needed to be restarted for any reason?


    I suppose if worst comes to worst I can just make new patches with the Cabinet section turned off. Even then I am still going to be nervous about the whole thing never having done anything similar before. I don't even have a real amp to test it through.

  • Go in the output section and tick the case Monitor Cab Off (and connect the Monitor Out to the stage amp's FX return). Do NOT deactivate the Cab from the front panel if you're sending the Main out to FOH at the same time

    If something is too complicated, then you need to learn it better

  • Go in the output section and tick the case Monitor Cab Off (and connect the Monitor Out to the stage amp's FX return). Do NOT deactivate the Cab from the front panel if you're sending the Main out to FOH at the same time

    This.


    If the main out can go to FOH, that’s good. Might want to ask if they’ll accommodate. Easy peasy even for an amateur sound engineer.


    If not, they’ll mic the amp old school and that’s that.


    No big deal, really.


    Just remember to enjoy yourself. It’s music and this is how festivals and supporting acts manage.


    With limited time - if I did anything (a big if)…. I’d probably only mess with the Output EQ on the Profiler. Whatever your primary sound is - adjust for that and everything else goes along for the ride.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Not to be a smartass but if the gig is not in front of a million-dollar record producer or for a charity event then I would tell them "my equipment or I don't show". Anyway... break a leg. :thumbup:

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • Something else to familiarize yourself with if you aren't already are the output volumes.


    Specifically main out and monitor out. FOH may need more/less (I leave the -12db on the main out checked. Otherwise the main outs are *really* hot).


    Monitor out will let you control your on-stage volume......but only use that if the cabinet is NOT mic'd. Otherwise FOH gets a variable signal.


    Sound engineers tend to pop a vein or two in their forehead or temple when that happens. :)

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • What Kemper are you using, is it a stage or unpowered toaster/rack? The issue here is if you are intending to use the actual amp - which I would avoid. I would also avoid playing purely off the backline.


    So, regardless of plugging into an amp, you need to check you can go direct and then just use the monitors...most engineers prefer this anyway.


    If you have the powered KPA then you can also just use the cab and unplug the mike lead to go direct into you KPA.


    If they play off the backline ( for me the worst case scenario, not related to the KPA but because of sound dispersion), then you will end up using the KPA an effects unit into the amp - yuk and unpredictable, but still possible.


    In all cases, the comments above apply around Monitor cab and unlinking volumes...

  • I would assume you will be using some sort of tube amp at this venue that has an effects loop?...you want to go into the Return as mentioned above with the Kemper CAB off in the settings as also mentioned above. Do you own a tube amp with a loop? The reason I ask is because I HIGHLY recommend you going into that and testing the profile(s) you will be using because they will sound tremendously different from what you were hearing when using an FRFR setup. You can either tweak on stage before the gig or get an idea at home first on what to expect.


    I have a powered Kemper head. When using the same profile with different setups (powered FRFR/Kemper's Power Amp into a real cabinet/Tube amp power into a real cabinet) they all sound different.

  • ...I have a powered Kemper head. When using the same profile with different setups (powered FRFR/Kemper's Power Amp into a real cabinet/Tube amp power into a real cabinet) they all sound different.

    The Kemper power amp into a guitar cab will sound very much the same as tube power amp into a guitar amp if the tube power amp is 'full' bandwith and operated linearly. The Kemper provides ALL the tone and the power amp should not add any further 'color'. You can't guarantee this in your situation. In light of that, I would do what V8guitar suggests.

  • The Kemper power amp into a guitar cab will sound very much the same as tube power amp into a guitar amp if the tube power amp is 'full' bandwith and operated linearly. The Kemper provides ALL the tone and the power amp should not add any further 'color'. You can't guarantee this in your situation. In light of that, I would do what V8guitar suggests.

    I am sorry but I disagree, have you ever tried using the Kemper's solid state power and then shut it down and switch over to a tube powered amp's loop return? If not I suggest you do and you will indeed hear a huge difference with that same exact profile. Please try it if you haven't, then let me know what you think.

  • Monitor out will let you control your on-stage volume......but only use that if the cabinet is NOT mic'd. Otherwise FOH gets a variable signal.


    Sound engineers tend to pop a vein or two in their forehead or temple when that happens. :)

    I'm fine when musicians adjust volume here and there to get comfortable so they can hear better, it usually makes for a better show overall and it's just a quick fader adjustment at FOH and maybe monitor feed. FOH is supposed to be interactive, adrenaline, change in the size of the audience, type of song being played and many other variables contribute to the overall sound, I really don't like to see someone out front who feels set it and forget it is adequate for the job.

    But you are correct about veins popping in some instances. I ran sound last year for a band and the guitarist reached back and changed his master volume 2 or 3 times a song, by the sixth or seventh song he was louder that the mains so outta the mix he went. I asked during their break if he might turn down some so we could get a better overall mix out front and he was happy to, by the third song in the second set I realized it was a lost cause though. They were really nice people to work with, including the guitarist, but the poor guy had severe master volume OCD, he just couldn't help himself🙂

  • I am sorry but I disagree, have you ever tried using the Kemper's solid state power and then shut it down and switch over to a tube powered amp's loop return? If not I suggest you do and you will indeed hear a huge difference with that same exact profile. Please try it if you haven't, then let me know what you think.

    Yes I have. My statement had an if in it. If yours does not then yours is coloring the Kemper signal.

  • But you are correct about veins popping in some instances. I ran sound last year for a band and the guitarist reached back and changed his master volume 2 or 3 times a song, ....

    Reminds me of a club owner's story of a guy with a Fender Twin that he turned up to 6 and refused to lower it. There are very few local gigs where a Twin on the boil 'fits' in the mix.


    The story goes that the guitarist was indignant and said "That's my sound. I'm not changing."


    At the end of the night, the club owner was talking to the entire band and said (pointing at the other members) "You guys are great." Then he points to the guitarist "But this prick made sure you won't play here again."

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Quote: “My statement had an if in it.”


    I’m thinking that the difference in opinion here is actually non-existent.


    That both posters are correct and that apples are being compared to oranges, and there is therefore, an apparent misunderstanding.


    That the full band width power amp that doesn’t colour the sound is the type of Tube Amplifier one would find in some mastering studios or in high end Hi-Fi systems.


    And the other type of Tube amplifier is specifically designed for Guitar amplification. So exactly the type of amplifier one would expect a guitarist to own but quite different in sound to a high-end full bandwidth amplifier.


    He sadly passed on a couple of years ago, but I used to belong to a discussion group inhabited by amongst notable others, an amplifier designer called Tim de Paravicini. He also made tape decks for some artists as well. But I think the type of amp Tim designed is what is being referred to.


    I hope I am correct and that helps resolve any misunderstanding.


    Quote: "That's my sound. I'm not changing."


    The Fender twin reverb is my favourite bedroom amp. I like to run two of them in stereo.


    True story. Cliff Richard had a group he toured with after the shadows had disbanded that featured two terrific lead guitarists.


    One of them, (actually the best of them), had a twin and just couldn’t resist continually turning his amp up louder and louder during the sets. This caused chaos at the mixing desk.


    This was during the period when major acts were starting to move from quite loud instrumental backlines to quieter more controlled environments with superior monitoring. Where the sound engineering was becoming much more sophisticated.


    They tried to work with this guitarist repeatedly (Cliff is an extremely nice person indeed and a total professional) but in the end, because he stubbornly refused to alter his sound, they had to be let go, rather then allow him to keep spoiling the act for the audience. He then disappeared into obscurity. Worst case of a supposed “session musician” I ever came across.


    “Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis”

  • Reminds me of a club owner's story of a guy with a Fender Twin that he turned up to 6 and refused to lower it. There are very few local gigs where a Twin on the boil 'fits' in the mix.


    The story goes that the guitarist was indignant and said "That's my sound. I'm not changing."


    At the end of the night, the club owner was talking to the entire band and said (pointing at the other members) "You guys are great." Then he points to the guitarist "But this prick made sure you won't play here again."

    I love the fact that some musicians are divas even before they are famous....although I tend to substitute the word diva for twat...

  • ...


    At the end of the night, the club owner was talking to the entire band and said (pointing at the other members) "You guys are great." Then he points to the guitarist "But this prick made sure you won't play here again."

    But the prick just happened to be Eric Clapton. The club owner can't afford him no more.


    My stories always have a happy ending. :)

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • But the prick just happened to be Eric Clapton. The club owner can't afford him no more.


    My stories always have a happy ending. :)

    Clapton hasn’t played a way -off-the-beaten-path, blue-collar, polished steel for a restroom mirror roadhouse like this since he was a teenager.


    The place exists as an anachronism to the modern era…… but it’s got a killer built in PA and the owner has a *mint* ADA MP-1, power amp and a set of vintage Galien-Krueger cabinets that look like they were made yesterday. Not a mark on any of it.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • ...That the full band width power amp that doesn’t colour the sound is the type of Tube Amplifier one would find in some mastering studios or in high end Hi-Fi systems.


    And the other type of Tube amplifier is specifically designed for Guitar amplification. So exactly the type of amplifier one would expect a guitarist to own but quite different in sound to a high-end full bandwidth amplifier....

    It is true that all tube output sections are not equal.


    Hi-fi tube amps are specifically designed for quality sound reproduction. What goes in comes out more or less unaltered or uncolored.


    There are guitar amps that have power amps designed for higher quality sound reproduction than others. The Dumble output section design comes to mind as an output section this is more hi-fi and that is designed to be adjustable as tubes and components age or change over time. Ampeg also had some amps like this. There are others as well, but that's not my point. There are also amps where the output section is designed to distort. The type of phase inverter, class of the output circuit and how the supply is configured all have an effect.


    The Kemper is intended to be used with an uncolored amplifier - full stop. If one happens to like it better through a distorted amplifier then so be it. Making the claim that it is better through every tube amp is incorrect. This is my main point.

  • The Dumble output section design comes to mind as an output section this is more hi-fi and that is designed to be adjustable as tubes and components age or change over time. Ampeg also had some amps like this. There are others as well, but that's not my point.

    Yes, and I believe the mighty Soldano SLO is another good example as Mike beloeved that the sound should come from the pre amp.