NAMM News - Is there anything new from our friends at Kemper?

Quote from Dynochrome

I can't prove it but I could profile your amp in the studio easily and you would not be able to tell which is your very own tube amp and the profile. The Kemper has fooled some very masterful, professional "big time" ears. My point: It's very accurate now, you just have to learn the details that give you what you want likeill t

i got dog ears i bet i coild tell ten outa ten times. It doesnt matter what gear yoi have if the kper has limits it has limits. Send me two files honestly no tricks an ill pick it. Not to blow my horn but id love the challange

just thinking there, my favorite control ever has got to be the edge control on a badcat hotcat. It introduces the nice valve buzz in the preamp. If they somehow copy the hotcat tonestack with that i be in heaven.

Quote from lbieber

My main comments are whether liquid profiling will result in an improvement in the final tone.

I thought the video sort of confirms it doesn't change the basic sound, its one the tonestack "on top" ? So I think the answer is no.

Quote from goldensheaf

i got dog ears i bet i coild tell ten outa ten times. It doesnt matter what gear yoi have if the kper has limits it has limits. Send me two files honestly no tricks an ill pick it. Not to blow my horn but id love the challange

So you got golden ears like no one else. We've heard that before. It's easy to claim something on the net. The truth is you want to believe it's true and nothing else.

Quote: “Yes, I think the Kemper Mini is a better money making idea for CK, and I am certain this is something they will eventually release;”

Thank you for your view, which is one I have repeatedly observed from particular individuals on this forum.

However, it is a viewpoint that like so many things in life can seem to make perfect sense, but which from a business sense may not be sensible at all.

If you think about it, Kemper is being asked to design a product which will primarily have as its main competitor, the existing Kemper Profiling Amplifier range.

A premium product designed for working professionals at the top of their game, the most versatile device on the market. One that has proven itself and its worth, like all the greatest amplifiers over an extended period of time.

Kemper are being encouraged by some to design a product that will inevitability draw sales away from their class leading, innovative design, and that will undercut the profitability of the company.

Premium products command premium prices that make’s for a company with healthy profits. Profits heathy enough to facilitate rewarding customer loyalty to the brand with top class service and support.

Furthermore, it enables occasional gifts of class defining make over product updates, like the one just announced featuring five separate highly desirable, usefully functional additional elements, that will augment and extend their top of the tree device.

Quite different from the superficial, cosmetic aesthetics offered by some.

Or the strictly limited features offered by others. Or the cheap, poorly supported devices widely available.

By focussing on the wants and needs of professionals in terms of high quality, versatility and functionality; whilst improving and providing options to simplify adding modelling to an already outstanding set of features.

All for free! Kemper really is a most praiseworthy company.

Yet there are still those that desire a cheap Kemper, which would have to be made in China.

Outside the ability to validate product control by the owners and design engineers involving global, logistical complications.

And the problems wouldn’t stop there. If a third-party manufacturing company fabricated a product for Kemper at a cheaper price.

As soon as possible, they would look to cheaper component suppliers and replace them wherever they could, to increase their own profitability.

That’s what happens, soon after it is clear a product is selling. Nothing in business ever stands still for long, especially in the field of product manufacturing.

Alternatively, if such a product was manufactured in house by Kemper in Germany.

Then they would be able to, as at this time, control product quality, validating their own manufacturing processes and maintaining the quality of component supply.

But that would involve a large capital investment by Kemper in terms of purchasing new premises or extending existing ones. Incredibly expensive new plant would be required along with a significant increase in well paid personnel.

All to manufacture a product they will have to sell for a much lower cost, that will directly compete with their existing products, and deliver far lower profitability per unit sale.

And that in a market already more than adequately served with inferior products, at rock bottom prices, that perform simple tasks for mass market consumers, content with “johny come lately” brands.

Sitting on the coattails of true innovators like Kemper, to make some money in the process by stealing their ideas, and never mind the product issues or delivering a quality service to their customers.

Serial investors look to get in at an early development stage or catch the wave during a surge of interest in a particular product. They have an exit strategy and pull their money out, as product interest begins to wane.

Their customers are really buying into built in obsolesce, and many of them don’t mind being part of a throwaway society. Whilst others are bemused and disappointed as they are left high and dry requiring support, with no capital to provide it remaining.

In contrast, Kemper is the expensive gift that simply keeps on giving.

Initiating trends, continually innovating and improving products that professionals appreciate for their quality, reliability and longevity.

Like Formula 1 drivers. Those at the front are in a completely different race to those in the middle of the pack or lamentably bringing up the rear.

With complete respect to those asking for a mini-Kemper. They are really asking the company to become involved and engrossed in a completely different race altogether, to the one the have so obviously been leading for so long.

Catering for mass markets instead of premium markets mean one has to sell far, far more many units to ever be highly profitable.

And that in an already overcrowded sector of the market. Lower prices mean cheaper, less reliable components, poorer service backup, and long term, lower reputational kudos.

In the finality, unless a company can generate and sustain substantially good profitability, then it really doesn’t have a future. In this respect its important whatever product development Kemper engage with, ensures sound profitability by virtue of its existing, class leading reputation being built on, augmented and extended in future.

They seem to already be in an entire class of their own, long may it be so!

I agree with all of that but to save space have left the bit that most applies to me

Quote from Crispy Panther

By focussing on the wants and needs of professionals in terms of high quality, versatility and functionality; whilst improving and providing options to simplify adding modelling to an already outstanding set of features.

All for free! Kemper really is a most praiseworthy company.

Quote from Crispy Panther

Quote: “Yes, I think the Kemper Mini is a better money making idea for CK, and I am certain this is something they will eventually release;”

Thank you for your view, which is one I have repeatedly observed from particular individuals on this forum.

However, it is a viewpoint that like so many things in life can seem to make perfect sense, but which from a business sense may not be sensible at all.

If you think about it, Kemper is being asked to design a product which will primarily have as its main competitor, the existing Kemper Profiling Amplifier range.

A premium product designed for working professionals at the top of their game, the most versatile device on the market. One that has proven itself and its worth, like all the greatest amplifiers over an extended period of time.

Kemper are being encouraged by some to design a product that will inevitability draw sales away from their class leading, innovative design, and that will undercut the profitability of the company.

Premium products command premium prices that make’s for a company with healthy profits. Profits heathy enough to facilitate rewarding customer loyalty to the brand with top class service and support.

Furthermore, it enables occasional gifts of class defining make over product updates, like the one just announced featuring five separate highly desirable, usefully functional additional elements, that will augment and extend their top of the tree device.

Quite different from the superficial, cosmetic aesthetics offered by some.

Or the strictly limited features offered by others. Or the cheap, poorly supported devices widely available.

By focussing on the wants and needs of professionals in terms of high quality, versatility and functionality; whilst improving and providing options to simplify adding modelling to an already outstanding set of features.

All for free! Kemper really is a most praiseworthy company.

Yet there are still those that desire a cheap Kemper, which would have to be made in China.

Outside the ability to validate product control by the owners and design engineers involving global, logistical complications.

And the problems wouldn’t stop there. If a third-party manufacturing company fabricated a product for Kemper at a cheaper price.

As soon as possible, they would look to cheaper component suppliers and replace them wherever they could, to increase their own profitability.

That’s what happens, soon after it is clear a product is selling. Nothing in business ever stands still for long, especially in the field of product manufacturing.

Alternatively, if such a product was manufactured in house by Kemper in Germany.

Then they would be able to, as at this time, control product quality, validating their own manufacturing processes and maintaining the quality of component supply.

But that would involve a large capital investment by Kemper in terms of purchasing new premises or extending existing ones. Incredibly expensive new plant would be required along with a significant increase in well paid personnel.

All to manufacture a product they will have to sell for a much lower cost, that will directly compete with their existing products, and deliver far lower profitability per unit sale.

And that in a market already more than adequately served with inferior products, at rock bottom prices, that perform simple tasks for mass market consumers, content with “johny come lately” brands.

Sitting on the coattails of true innovators like Kemper, to make some money in the process by stealing their ideas, and never mind the product issues or delivering a quality service to their customers.

Serial investors look to get in at an early development stage or catch the wave during a surge of interest in a particular product. They have an exit strategy and pull their money out, as product interest begins to wane.

Their customers are really buying into built in obsolesce, and many of them don’t mind being part of a throwaway society. Whilst others are bemused and disappointed as they are left high and dry requiring support, with no capital to provide it remaining.

In contrast, Kemper is the expensive gift that simply keeps on giving.

Initiating trends, continually innovating and improving products that professionals appreciate for their quality, reliability and longevity.

Like Formula 1 drivers. Those at the front are in a completely different race to those in the middle of the pack or lamentably bringing up the rear.

With complete respect to those asking for a mini-Kemper. They are really asking the company to become involved and engrossed in a completely different race altogether, to the one the have so obviously been leading for so long.

Catering for mass markets instead of premium markets mean one has to sell far, far more many units to ever be highly profitable.

And that in an already overcrowded sector of the market. Lower prices mean cheaper, less reliable components, poorer service backup, and long term, lower reputational kudos.

In the finality, unless a company can generate and sustain substantially good profitability, then it really doesn’t have a future. In this respect its important whatever product development Kemper engage with, ensures sound profitability by virtue of its existing, class leading reputation being built on, augmented and extended in future.

They seem to already be in an entire class of their own, long may it be so!

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That’s quite the essay 😎,

But I think your absolutely spot on 👍🏻

Quote from GearJocke

So you got golden ears like no one else. We've heard that before. It's easy to claim something on the net. The truth is you want to believe it's true and nothing else.

He had a fun dig an I repied i could tell. Well, I can, an am happy to have a bit of fun if he sends 2 clips. And? Or that turn you eggs hard for some reason. Im not special just maybe your deaf. Many pros an youtubers complain the same thing. It not just me. This guy claims I could not tell the difference, well sorry I put money on it I can

I’ve heard (Tone Junkie vids maybe) or read some hints that KPA with new audio over USB might serve to re-amp and/or as a soundcard/audio interface for the computer it is attached to. Don’t really understand yet how this should work. Any thoughts?

Quote from Jasperidosio

I’ve heard (Tone Junkie vids maybe) or read some hints that KPA with new audio over USB might serve to re-amp and/or as a soundcard/audio interface for the computer it is attached to. Don’t really understand yet how this should work. Any thoughts?

All you need is to connect the Profiler to your computer with a USB cable and configure the appropriate inputs and outputs in your DAW and in the Profiler.

Quote from goldensheaf

i got dog ears i bet i coild tell ten outa ten times. It doesnt matter what gear yoi have if the kper has limits it has limits. Send me two files honestly no tricks an ill pick it. Not to blow my horn but id love the challange

You should probably quit your day job and be a music producer then. I spoke with Michael Wagner in Nashville at a Music store he frequents there. (Produced or mixed Mötley Crüe, W.A.S.P., Overkill, Accept, Great White, Stryper, Poison, Keel, Alice Cooper, Nuno, Megadeth, Janet Jackson, Ozzy Osbourne, George Lynch, Metallica, Vito Bratta and Skid Row) and he said he could not tell the difference and neither could any of his clients that took the same challenge. Other top producers report the same thing. So you believe you can hear what all these people can't?

The dog ear argument can't be won by either side IMO. Double blind testers have preferred coat hangers over Monster speaker wire, $500 turned wood knobs over plastic, and exhorbitanlty priced IEC power cables. This goes on and on without any resolution.

Certainly a listening test of TWO things is not a statistically meaningful test.

Quote from Kemper Support #1

... configure the appropriate inputs and outputs in your DAW ...

I'm so curious to see whether it will be reflecting all analog & digital inputs and outputs of the Profiler ... and whether it's just a class-compliant implementation.

Quote from Dynochrome

I don't know what "FA" is but I have owned plenty of JCM 800s in my life. Although the amps can be set to an amazing rock sound, the EQ stack is probably the strangest to understand of all the amps I have ever owned. Most people that own them don't actually know where the Bass,mid,treble and presence centers are and are usually surprised (and often don't believe) when I tell them . (It's listed in a hard to find Marshall manual I have somewhere.) At first it appears that the knobs barely do anything, but the interaction between them is what you have to learn. Different combos have different "feels". I don't like the way it works but one just puts up with it because it is what it is. I wouldn't miss it if I couldn't reproduce the way it worked. I have some excellent JCM800 profiles that sound exactly like my amp, barely ever a need to touch the EQ and if I felt the need, the "stock" tonestack did exactly what I wanted it to do.

FA is “absolutely nothing” using swears that my mother wouldn’t want me saying in public.

I too had a JCM800 and would be incredibly interested in sampling some of your delectable JCM800 profiles if you wouldn’t mind pointing me in the right direction to purchase or if they are yours and wouldn’t mind sharing?

I’m yet to find a profile that sounded as good as mine did, and unfortunately I never owned the amp and the Kemper at the same time, in order to profile it.

Quote from Crispy Panther

A premium product designed for working professionals at the top of their game, the most versatile device on the market. One that has proven itself and its worth, like all the greatest amplifiers over an extended period of time.

…that will augment and extend their top of the tree device.

They seem to already be in an entire class of their own, long may it be so!

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Honestly, this is ridiculous. I’m a huge Kemper fan but it’s not the most versatile device and doesn’t come close to being the most versatile device either. Neither is it at the top of the tree and they’re not in a class of their own, either.

That’s a hell of a long post to be spouting some fairly ignorant and narrow minded views.

Like I said, I love Kemper, their ethos and the way they look after the staff and fiercely protect their products and keep them running far beyond other products end of life, but they and the product are not the all shining, all dancing example you’re painting out, either.

Man, Cliff Chase is an angry little man..

My response..

It is up to the two companies and possibly a court to decide if it is an actionable infringement... This is a negotiation or possibly a legal matter.

Quote from lbieber

It is up to the two companies and possibly a court to decide if it is an actionable infringement... This is a negotiation or possibly a legal matter.

Yeah, but its speculation. What proof does he have? CK could have used a completely different method. Cliff has always been very sour towards any competition and it rubs off on his customers too.

Quote from griff7628

Yeah, but its speculation. What proof does he have? CK could have used a completely different method. Cliff has always been very sour towards any competition and it rubs off on his customers too.

Sure, but in my experience with patent cases proof is not always the main consideration. Many cases end up in a negotiation and some sort of settlement outside the court. There are many considerations for the parties on both sides and it does not always reach the resolution that strict logic might indicate.

It would be a surprise if CK has transgressed in a patent issue, he seems like a smart cat with his own ideas.