Liquid Profiles

    This tap-tempo discussion is off topic in this thread.


    IMHO, If you can't keep time you'll never make it as a musician. I absolutely refuse to work with anybody that requires a click track or blinking light. Why you would point out your shortcomings is a mystery to me, but if you just can't help it, PLEASE do it somewhere else.


    That may sound rude but it's true.

    "Faith don't need no second opinion"

    Like 3

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    Quote from Edward Dixon

    This tap-tempo discussion is off topic in this thread.


    IMHO, If you can't keep time you'll never make it as a musician. I absolutely refuse to work with anybody that requires a click track or blinking light. Why you would point out your shortcomings is a mystery to me, but if you just can't help it, PLEASE do it somewhere else.


    That may sound rude but it's true.

    *Ahem*

    [Blocked Image: https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/11/21/leonard-bernstein_custom-958733251cfd600f18c260c6e752d3bc85cb4f81-s1600-c85.webp]

    Kemper for the win! Too much good to say about this company. No guitarist is immune to whining, but I’m getting the same stellar tones ten years later, which is tremendously gratifying. This versus some of my precious vintage amps which due to necessary excellent maintenance nonetheless still evolve and sound different than at various peak moments, which is truly frustrating. Whatever. Perfect or imperfect, this company is great and unique in simple, human ways that are not common.


    As for these new developments, c’mon it’s fantastic. Annnnnd … if history repeats, they won’t be inside of our devices as soon as we would like. But when they are, yet another new era of green box inspiration, even for the many already satisfied users among us.

    Is "liquid profiling":


    1) Just a "custom" EQ added either before or after the amp section, so not much different than the current EQ, but presumably with EQ-points and curves set up to match particular amps


    2) Something else, that truly makes it reacts like a real amp would to tone stack changes


    If 1), well still useful, but nothing you couldn't do with the studio EQ or an EQ plugin in the DAW if recording.


    If 2), game changer!


    As C Kemper mentioned in the video interview, you can do a lot with EQ both before and after the amp - with profiles I use a lot, I use a studio EQ in a stomp slot to optimise the tonal structure of the signal going into the amp, the tone stack EQ post amp for broad strokes, and then a more detailed EQ (including hpf/lpfs) with ProQ in the DAW. However, there really is only so far you can go with any of these stages of EQ before it starts to sound unnatural. C Kemper seems to dispute this a bit in the video, but that's been my experience, and I've heard many other say it too. So currently, unless you're making your own profiles, you really do have to find a profile that already has a pretty similar tonal structure to what you're after, and to what suits your pickups. If, with liquid profiling, you really will be able to change the tonal balance in the way you can on a real amp (or a modeller), then 99% of my gripes about the Kemper will be instantly solved! Fingers crossed...

    This.


    As I understand it, it will be no different (well, in a way) to the controlls in a fractal oder Line6 unit but simply applied to a profile and not a premodelled amp simulation like in modellers. It will make the profile adapt to the controls knobs through some magic calculating fairy dust process (this is the scientific term, you can copy and use it), like the appropriate real amp.


    I've been waiting for so long to get rid of those large lists of profiles of only one single amp. I hope this will be my long requested one amp one profile solution.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

    Like 2

    The "liquid profiling" sounds like a linear interpolation of existing Kemper parameters from one profile to another of the same amp. The amp models are those interpolation rules. Very well tough out. It will make the organization of profiles much simpler.

    Quote from JohnnyBee

    Well, just want to mention that for more than 10 years they are not able to fix the error of the wrong blinking TAP button.

    But we get Liquid Profiling.

    "It's the simple thinks like when and where".

    (Kid Rock)

    ;)


    Uhm, did you check the TAP button blink in the video, for example in the shot starting at 7'30''?

    I think there's another fix in this update that hasn't been talked about much yet!


    https://youtu.be/qMaxF-VzCQI?t=450

    Quote from spotter

    This. Sounds. Awesome.


    before my inner eye I already see, that I just have one or two great profiles from each amp I want and go from there. This is what threw me off the first time I used the profiler (to have 20 or 30 profiles of one amp for every different setting).

    Yes, my thoughts exactly. I was a bit confused and a little disappointed when I first learned that the profiler isn't like some sort of tool that let's you replicate the tone knobs from a specific amplifier. I guess that's when I learned the difference between profiling and modeling. But even without this, the capabilities of the profiler were still mind blowing. I thought maybe I don't actually need to fiddle with the tone of these profiles because someone already spent time dialing in a bunch of great sounds for each profile htey created. So I went ahead and took a dive. It is probably one of the best music-related investments I have ever made. It's the sort of technology that I never would have believed was going to exist in my lifetime, to be honest.


    But now... now, I'm reading about how the Kemper can and will allow users to interact with the EQ knobs that will match up with the response curves of the real deal. And.... let me get this straight. This is just going to be a part of an upcoming firmware update? I don't have to buy a new model? Also, does htis mean that a kemper is no longer just a profiler? Doesn't this mean it's also a modeling amp?


    Also, does this mean I no longer have to deal with having 6,000 JCM800 profiles? It's totally insane, because after a few years, i really only ever use maybe 4 of these profiles.



    I'm so hard right now.

    Quote from JinxDefusing

    Also, does htis mean that a kemper is no longer just a profiler? Doesn't this mean it's also a modeling amp?

    No, exactly NOT this. CK explained in the video that the Profiler will remain what it was with just that very small modelling part that alters and sculpts the profile itself and not a modeled sound.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

    Quote from Nikos

    And before I forget..


    All the guys saying "I don't need this".


    Yeah ok. We will see.

    1. Profile through RM. Handy but I don't make profiles often. I don't need this.
    2. Profile Marketplace in RM. I don't need this.
    3. Android Support. Even though I am an Android guy and this has been a long time coming and will be useful to many I don't need this.
    4. USB Audio. Another feature long overdue that will help many but I don't need this.
    5. Liquid Profiling (accurate tone stack with EQ and gain staging). On the surface this sounds like more of that "amp in the room" voodoo to me. The Kemper in its current form meets or exceeds all of my needs as a guitarist. The last big game changer was the Kemper Kone, Kemper Kabinet(s) and speaker imprints. A wonderful feature that... (wait for it) I had no use for.
    Quote from alerich
    1. Profile through RM. Handy but I don't make profiles often. I don't need this.
    2. Profile Marketplace in RM. I don't need this.
    3. Android Support. Even though I am an Android guy and this has been a long time coming and will be useful to many I don't need this.
    4. USB Audio. Another feature long overdue that will help many but I don't need this.
    5. Liquid Profiling (accurate tone stack with EQ and gain staging). On the surface this sounds like more of that "amp in the room" voodoo to me. The Kemper in its current form meets or exceeds all of my needs as a guitarist. The last big game changer was the Kemper Kone, Kemper Kabinet(s) and speaker imprints. A wonderful feature that... (wait for it) I had no use for.

    Kemper profiler. You don't need this.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

    Like 1

    I don't get how the "new gain" control will work and bring realistic gain structure? And also when the profile stays the same it will still react like we are used to. For example when I profile a Supro amp at edge of break up. Then when I boost the profile with a pedal it sounds very different than the real amp boosted. The real amp brings in more fuzz tone for example and the Kemper does not. So I learned to profile with way more gain and other tricks, then bring the gain down when using with drive pedals. I can't see how the new features will solve this?

    Quote from Ibot39

    I don't get how the "new gain" control will work and bring realistic gain structure? And also when the profile stays the same it will still react like we are used to. For example when I profile a Supro amp at edge of break up. Then when I boost the profile with a pedal it sounds very different than the real amp boosted. The real amp brings in more fuzz tone for example and the Kemper does not. So I learned to profile with way more gain and other tricks, then bring the gain down when using with drive pedals. I can't see how the new features will solve this?

    I don't think anyone outside of Kemper knows the answer to this. Based on what CK said, nothing is clear regarding the gain knob other than it will be able to model a bright cap.

    Quote from lbieber

    I don't think anyone outside of Kemper knows the answer to this. Based on what CK said, nothing is clear regarding the gain knob other than it will be able to model a bright cap.

    Fortunately, that last statement is untrue. CK states exactly that the gain knob will behave like a real gain knob. (see HW's Video on YouTube, min. 7:15) But then again, what else should he say, seen from a marketing point of view...

    Curious what the update will bring for commercial profilers. The integration of a third party store in Rig Manager sounds good – without going into a debate over whether you want to pay for profiles or not (to each their own), the possibility of selling profiles has undoubtedly inspired studio owners to invest time and resources into methodical and well-made profile packs that we otherwise wouldn't have had. Bringing them into Rig Manager, along with the free Rig Exchange and Kemper's own free packs, certainly will make things even more convenient. If I understand correctly, there will be a way to test profiles before buying (maybe the Store button will be disabled then?), which we didn't have until now.


    On the other hand, the introduction of Liquid Profiling sounds like it could undermine one of the selling points for commercial profilers: that they typically provide a whole profile collection of every possible combination of EQ and gain settings for a specific amp, rather than the disparate one-offs found for free in the Rig Exchange. If Liquid Profiling works as described, as long as you know the knob settings of the original amp, one profile would be enough to cover every corner and every sweet spot. And that, in turn, could make those free one-off profiles much more valuable than they are now.


    For the rest of us, Liquid Profiling is definitely great news. My bandmate is planning to sell his Marshall head. We're going to profile it first, of course, and the prospect of this update means we don't have to worry too much about covering all the gain and EQ sweet spots – we'll just make a couple of profiles and make sure to remember the knob settings. Combined with merged profiling, which takes the pressure off mic placement (since the direct amp part is foolproof and you can always switch to a cab made by someone with better mics and better ears), there's so much less that can go wrong!