AS EXPECTED, the other guy (with steam coming out of his ears when the Kemper is mentioned) just commented today on their forum:
"Liquid Profiling is a blatant infringement on my patent."
Yea, that thread is something special.
Liquid Profiles
- wkiefer
- Thread is marked as Resolved.
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Here is the patent that was so violently infringed - presumably without buying it dinner first:
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Yea, that thread is something special.
You ain't kidding. Buahaha. Drew from FX is going to town about how much the KPA sucks in his own inimitable style. Others are on the old "I'd rather push my Fat Bob than ride a Rice Burner" trip. The term fair weather communist was invoked. A joy to behold.
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I just started reading that thread. Holy crap is it funny. The butthurt is real. I haven't read anything that funny since the line 6 forums were salty about the Headrush coming out.
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Here is the patent that was so violently infringed - presumably without buying it dinner first:
I'm confused. I don't see anything specific in this patent that could be said to be copied. In the general sense, all the digital amp/cab creating companies have, for decades have been trying to more accurately represent a real guitar amp and Cab. Heck in the late 2000's Line 6 was talking about how the POD HD stuff was "modeling" the different components so as to not only model the basic tone of the original, but the feel. What makes fighting about patents of this stuff is that all of the companies are trying to make digital copies of real amps in some facet, amps they didn't design! And the vast majority of amps in existence were attempts to copy what others had done before and perhaps improve on it some, or to make some minor tweak to their own in order to avoid another amp maker's patent. Wasn't tone matching on the part of that other company an attempt to copy KPA's profiling capability?
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- Profile through RM. Handy but I don't make profiles often. I don't need this.
- Profile Marketplace in RM. I don't need this.
- Android Support. Even though I am an Android guy and this has been a long time coming and will be useful to many I don't need this.
- USB Audio. Another feature long overdue that will help many but I don't need this.
- Liquid Profiling (accurate tone stack with EQ and gain staging). On the surface this sounds like more of that "amp in the room" voodoo to me. The Kemper in its current form meets or exceeds all of my needs as a guitarist. The last big game changer was the Kemper Kone, Kemper Kabinet(s) and speaker imprints. A wonderful feature that... (wait for it) I had no use for.
Re. a profile marketplace in RM - the reason why I'd say this would be 2nd most useful update (after liquid profiling, if that turns out to be all it's cracked up to be that is) is that then they could implement some way where you can actually try the profiles via RM before buying - maybe they have some intermittent noise in them or something while you demo them, like a lot of demo versions of vst plugins do. For any of us who need a lot of different sounds, and have bought a lot of profiles, we all know the feeling of going thru a new profile pack and going "ah well, nothing useful here, more money wasted..." - a marketplace in RM where you could actually try the profiles to see how they sound thru your gtr/pickups (which is often very different to how they sound in the audio demos) would eliminate this frustration.
Of course, if liquid profiling really does what it it says on the tin, then this would be less of an issue anyway - i.e. if you really will be able to alter the tone of a profile in a way that matches adjusting the tone stack on the real amp.
But even with that, I don't see why anyone wouldn't want the ability to actually try the profiles thru their gear before buying - would GREATLY improve the user experience for anyone who uses 3rd party profiles.
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I just started reading that thread. Holy crap is it funny. The butthurt is real. I haven't read anything that funny since the line 6 forums were salty about the Headrush coming out.
I have a couple of Fractal units as well as a Kemper stage. I just don't get the fanboy anger. It is much more prevalent on that forum than it is on this one. It is okay to like what you like. I use these units for different purposes. I have likes and dislikes about all of them.
I think it is just people needing to feel like they are part of something bigger or to justify what they spent their money on. I think if those people actually got out of the house and made some real friends instead of thinking people online are their real friends it would do them good.
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There is a saying in Greece: "A dead fish always starts to stink from the head". I did not know about that person trolling about "his" patent. That thread is full of his trolls that never went to toilet for a very long time.
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...and btw., yes, I own an fm9.
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The history of patents in the US is kind of a horror show. It includes the Wright Brothers patenting powered flight which completely stalled the development of aviation in the US for years and years (you had to pay a licence fee to them if you built any aircraft) until some way into WW1 when the military woke up to the fact that other nations were way ahead on this essential technology and the govt decided all patents on flying machines were now void. Then there were the patents on all the basic things we take for granted - electric light, radio, TV etc which like the Wright bros thing were often just used for patent trolling: - ie we, the patent owners, don't actually make anything at all that anyone could buy, we just want to operate like parasites on anyone that does make anything and anyone who wants to buy that thing.
It was good to see Ed Sheeran on TV tonight, after his victory in the copyright lawsuit against him, rubbishing the idea that basic song elements could be used in copyright infringement suits - like claiming copyright on the the alphabet or the colour blue - and I might add, especially by people other than the composer allegedly being plagiarised ( check out the Men At Work copyright suit if you want to see an example of how that plays out).
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I have a couple of Fractal units as well as a Kemper stage. I just don't get the fanboy anger. It is much more prevalent on that forum than it is on this one. It is okay to like what you like. I use these units for different purposes. I have likes and dislikes about all of them.
I think it is just people needing to feel like they are part of something bigger or to justify what they spent their money on. I think if those people actually got out of the house and made some real friends instead of thinking people online are their real friends it would do them good.
I agree. I think Fractal makes some great products. I just liked the Kemper more for my needs. Having competition makes everyone's products better.
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The history of patents in the US is kind of a horror show. It includes the Wright Brothers patenting powered flight which completely stalled the development of aviation in the US for years and years (you had to pay a licence fee to them if you built any aircraft) until some way into WW1 when the military woke up to the fact that other nations were way ahead on this essential technology and the govt decided all patents on flying machines were now void. Then there were the patents on all the basic things we take for granted - electric light, radio, TV etc which like the Wright bros thing were often just used for patent trolling: - ie we, the patent owners, don't actually make anything at all that anyone could buy, we just want to operate like parasites on anyone that does make anything and anyone who wants to buy that thing.
There's pros and cons. To say that someone, under existing laws has patent rights is not the same thing as saying morally or ethically that one has a right to such things. Ethically, it's a case by case decision. For example, you have half a dozen individual or companies trying to solve the same problem, yet one person figures it out first. Must the others give up their efforts? And how much variance in the similarity to the first solution is ethical? How much time should be allowed to pass before the patents expire? Funny story, but the song "happy birthday" just entered public domain after the better part of a century, just as restaurant staff singing corny songs for those with birthdays has fallen out of fashion.
On the one hand, patents stifle the creation and access to solutions, which is now controlled by the person that reached the subjective finish line first, like in the Wright Brother's example.
On the other hand not having patents disincentives investment in discovering new solutions if someone or a company with deeper pockets can swoop in and steal your idea after you spent years and thousands or millions developing it.
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Big players like RCA and Edison claimed that inventors had stolen "their" work. So the actual inventors had a hell of a time fighting the deep pockets on major industry players and plenty of them died broke, miserable and unrewarded for their work. If you know how the IT industry has worked, big players like MS stole all kinds of stuff from other developers (eg Disk Compression and activatable licences for trial versions of applications).
These developers approached large established companies and said, here we have this invention - guys at the head of the companies approached often said stuff like - ha ha, we don't believe that is even possible - and eventually released the feature as part of a new version with no payment or acknowledgement. The inventors had to spend years in the courts to get paid if ever. In the film industry, screenwriters approach big studios with scripts, the studio passes, then some time later releases a film with all the ideas from the script (eg T2). Most instances like this it is who has the biggest budget for fight the court cases and the subsequent appeals.
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I agree. I think Fractal makes some great products. I just liked the Kemper more for my needs. Having competition makes everyone's products better.
Agree but tell C.C about competition. He doesn't like it. He saw kemper as a threat.
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Folks, it looks like to me that some of you are participating the same sort of fanboy anger that you are accusing the Fractal Forum members of. If Cliff believes that Kemper is infringing on his patent then it is within his rights to litigate it in a court of law. Kemper has the same rights. It has nothing to do with any of the end users of Fractal or Kemper whatsoever.
This which is better nonsense should stop. I own Fractal, Kemper, and Helix gear and in the long run it doesn’t really make much difference. They are all good in their own way. Any of them are just another piece of hardware and patent issues between these companies shouldn’t matter to us one bit.
Let it go; it isn’t worth all the angst and negativity.
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The arrogant and angry attitude is why I've never pulled the trigger on any of their stuff. Releasing new variants regularly to make their previous stuff obsolete is also not my cup of tea.
I won't be purchasing from The Waitlist Company any time soon, even if they manage to release one that sounds better than my KPA.
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The arrogant and angry attitude is why I've never pulled the trigger on any of their stuff. Releasing new variants regularly to make their previous stuff obsolete is also not my cup of tea.
I won't be purchasing from The Waitlist Company any time soon, even if they manage to release one that sounds better than my KPA.
This is the pot calling the kettle black.
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This is the pot calling the kettle black.
IIt says a lot when the kettle was banned from TGP.
While there is fanboi-itis among Kemper owners, it doesn't reach the level of toxicity at the kettle's forum.
As to the original topic....I'm actually more excited about USB audio than anything else.
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I read some where that USB audio would come 1st and that makes sense to me. I am wondering how many channels will be available.. I think I saw 4 in the video.
I hope the Profiling in RM will come quickly after that. I bought my Stage used abut 14 months ago and haven't profiled a single amp yet. Mainly because the Stage is set up for recording on the floor with a ton of other stuff and I am way too old to be crawling around on the floor trying to read the little screen and I don't want to move it to a table or stand somewhere (no room for that).
Liquid profiles sounds good to me but Android support doesn't affect me. Online Market might be nice but I can wait , I have 7 amps I want to profile and sell before I die.
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It says a lot when the kettle was banned from TGP.
While there is fanboi-itis among Kemper owners, it doesn't reach the level of toxicity at the kettle's forum.
As to the original topic....I'm actually more excited about USB audio than anything else.
Getting banned from TGP is nothing noteworthy. People get banned for no good reason other than disagreeing with some moderator. There's a whole new forum started up by people banned from TGP called The Gear Forum. Where everyone seems to get along okay. https://thegearforum.com
I don't know what the toxicity that you refer to is. I don't see it. Have you ever even logged in and posted there? I think you're letting your prejudices show.
