i hate to b that guy but tbh i found the discussion of liquid profiling quite interesting and am not interested in troubleshooting the audio interface option which i think has nothing to do with LP .. could we maybe move back on topic ? 
Liquid Profiles
- wkiefer
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i hate to b that guy but tbh i found the discussion of liquid profiling quite interesting and am not interested in troubleshooting the audio interface option which i think has nothing to do with LP .. could we maybe move back on topic ?
Indeed, there is some other threads on USB audio that do not get as much activity as this one in the past 2 days. Move the discussion to those threads and get back to Liquid profiling on this one.
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I have absolutely zero need for liquid profiling. I have never and I will probably never profile anything. Every profile I will ever need is already done.
i still have a limited technical understanding of LP at this point, but doesn't LP have the potential to make all your existing profiles better / more interactive ? from what i understand it will give profiles more flexibility by adding a more 'realistic' emulation of the tone stack so that a profile will have more range to be adjusted without artefacts and less need to have several profiles for different gain levels of a given amp. I also don't profile and don't go super deep into editing profile settings but it's rare that i don't feel the need to adjust gain and eq (even on a 'real' amp) and i think LP will make each profile more versatile.
besides that i understand that for LP to work properly you'd have to know at which poti positions the amp was profiled .. but am i the only one that is lookin forward to experiment with this and see what happens when you just 'guess' the initial poti positions and try out different positions on a profile ? Also as has been discussed, using tone stacks from completely unrelated/different amps could be lots of fun ..
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Profiles have always been interactive. It's one of the profiler's stand out features. The Clarity and Definition controls alone can change drastically the character of any profile. Other units just give you EQ to shape your sound after the fact. I imagine LPs will be an extension of the Clarity and Definition controls and allow you to alter the characteristics of the profile based on EQ curves from existing Tone stacks.
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My understanding so far is that Profiles are snapshots of the amp at it's particular setting. Once you move any parameter then it is no longer a true representation of that amp. With liquid profiling, you will be able to move those parameters and maintain the representation of the amp. This means you won't have just a "snapshot" of the amp but the whole kit-n-caboodle of the amp --and that is the merger of profiling and modeling. This could mean that Kemper will be able to produce the most accurate full model of an amp bar none.
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I'd be surprised if they don't have that as an option or baked-in to the particular model of tone stack.
But how exactly would this be implemented? I can't see how putting the tone stack between the various stages of an amplifier can be done with a profile.
With modelling, I can see how this could be done - even "digital circuits" can be arranged in series - so you'd model the preamp, insert the tone stack, then into a model of the power amp, for example - not sure if this is actually what modellers do (Fractal maybe?) but I can see how it'd could work. But even a DI profile is snapshot of the complete amp. How can you accurately insert the tone stack "within" this profile? Before or after, yes, easy - but how do you insert it between the pre and power amp stage of a snapshot profile?
Whether or not "liquid profiling" can accurately model how a real amp's EQ controls affect it's tone - and whether it's actually as revolutionary as being claimed - really does seem to me to hinge on how they deal with the fact that most tone stacks are not pre or post the entire amp, but somewhere between the various pre and power amp stages of the amp.
Who knows, maybe they've figured out some algorithm to simulate this - again, would be great if anyone on the Kemper team could comment on whether this will just be custom EQ-point and curves that can be placed either before or after the profile, or if it's something "deeper" that can accurately simulate a tone stack inbetween the various stages of the amp.
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But how exactly would this be implemented? I can't see how putting the tone stack between the various stages of an amplifier can be done with a profile.
No idea. Way past my pay grade and even further past my understanding of the technology. I mean, there's a reason Kemper mentioned it back in 2011, dropped it and have now just figured it out.
At least one guy at Line6 congratulated CK for (once again) figuring out how to do something before anyone else. That was on Gearpage. Dude said something like "Once again....he figured something out the rest of hadn't been able to."
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I assume you would you take measurements of the Gain, Volume, and EQs and then calculate their individual curves and formulate an accurate way for those curves to interact with each other as the amp does. Then it goes into the profile. It's not magic. It's only math. But the problem is at least 20 pages long. Longest problem I did in college was 2 pages long, and then I puked afterwards.
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I am now ready.
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i hate to b that guy but tbh i found the discussion of liquid profiling quite interesting and am not interested in troubleshooting the audio interface option which i think has nothing to do with LP .. could we maybe move back on topic ?
You're totally right 😉
Here's one question on topic: with the EQ Controls behaving like in the real-world amp now, does it mean that the heard volume will change a lot too, like in the real world? Or will kemper will give the option of having a kind of volume normalization?
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You're totally right 😉
Here's one question on topic: with the EQ Controls behaving like in the real-world amp now, does it mean that the heard volume will change a lot too, like in the real world? Or will kemper will give the option of having a kind of volume normalization?
CK said in the interview that volume compensation will ve retained.
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I am now ready.
Patience 😎 "Liquid" will come with OS 10.0
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CK said in the interview that volume compensation will ve retained.
good to know. That being said, to stick to the Amp in the room feeling again (they did so many things to provide it), they could also offer the possibility to deactivate this compensation, so that the user will effectively experience the same than with the real thing...
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In fact we could even coin a new acronym, we could split the "Amp in the room" into two others : "Cab In The Room"+"Head In The Fingers"
it makes AITR=CITR+HITF
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good to know. That being said, to stick to the Amp in the room feeling again (they did so many things to provide it), they could also offer the possibility to deactivate this compensation, so that the user will effectively experience the same than with the real thing...
I wonder if it's simple as turning off the compensation? To me though, it would be feature I'd never use. The best part of digital units is tweaking to get the sound you want and then being able to lower or raise the volume to the level you need without affecting tone. KPA simplified this step so that you could play with the gain knob to your hearts content and instantly hear how it sounds at an even volume. As volume affects how we perceive how good it sounds (louder tends to sound better) being able to sweep the gain knob and never have the moving target of volume changes affect your evaluation might just be my favorite feature of the KPA. It doesn't matter what I do with the gain knob in a Rig. If I make a change and save it, I know it matches the volume of other Rigs (assuming those Rigs matched before). *This also makes it possible to morph the gain with an expression pedal and setting it up is very simply.
That said, I can see how some users would like that for the sake of authenticity, but I can't think of any practical reason that this would be musically convenient. Besides, if you would like a volume jump when you up the gain, just up the Rig's volume control as much or little as you like, which you can do now. If we're going for sheer authenticity, why don't they make a KPA 2 that weighs 75 pounds and has expensive parts that need replacing every couple years?
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i still have a limited technical understanding of LP at this point, but doesn't LP have the potential to make all your existing profiles better / more interactive ? from what i understand it will give profiles more flexibility by adding a more 'realistic' emulation of the tone stack so that a profile will have more range to be adjusted without artefacts and less need to have several profiles for different gain levels of a given amp.
I think this is incorrect. The only thing its doing is using the modelling the control interaction. Therefore you should be able to get the same sounds without the liquid profiles ( at a very basic level).
So as an example, you add more bass on a JCM 800 profile. Without liquid profiles, thats all that would happen...just more bass. On the real amp you might find that the mid drops off slightly. So the liquid profile means it replicates that interaction. If you knew that, you could replicate it manually by adjusting the mid at the same time...
The only thing I don't know is if, in that example ( which is totally fake - I've no idea how a jcm 800 tone structure works), the frequency of the mid is changed to replicate the effect the same way, thus resulting in a sound you couldn't replicate without liquid profiles.
Maybe someone knows better than me..
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Take a look at the Seymour Duncan tone stack simulator. You can get some curves you couldn't get any other way. I suspect LP works the same way. Including changing center frequencies of knobs.
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If we're going for sheer authenticity, why don't they make a KPA 2 that weighs 75 pounds and has expensive parts that need replacing every couple years?
😂😂😂sure, that's the paradox. I agree with all what you said, but the kemper is also a toy to play with, and just to see what it would have given in real, I'd use the button.
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I wish Kemper would put out a video showing us how liquid profiling works and what are its benefits. I think I understand it, I'm just not sure I want it, so it would be nice to see it in action before upgrading.
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I wish Kemper would put out a video showing us how liquid profiling works and what are its benefits. I think I understand it, I'm just not sure I want it, so it would be nice to see it in action before upgrading.
It won't affect existing Profiles (unless you want it to). If I remember the video correctly, it's not even a requirement for new ones.
