"Camplifier" - Poweramps for the KPA

Quote from SuhrJul

Just ordered mine - can't wait

SuhrJul,

I am in the market for one of those. Out of curiosity, which model did you order?

Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

Camplifier-video is online: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p2emrsM-Ic

I like this design and good video. That's a fast installation.

Very well done! Thanks for that comprehensive vid.

I like how he's micing the edge of the cab....

Excellent review. Makes me re-think ....

I bought the Camplifier 180 a year ago.
I play it with my band (Way Of Changes) and our practice place is really humid but I never had any problem with it. It's already way too much powerful, even on stage I think that I've never went over 50% of it's power (on a 2x12, Celestion V30 cab).
It's really a great, light weight, nice sounding amp. I can't recommend it enough !

Nice review with one big mistake: you can't compare transistor-watts 1:1 to tube-watts, he's comparing a 100 W-Engl Powerball he used to play 1:1 to the Camplifier. He also thinks that the 600W of the KPA-Powerhead offers too much, unnecessary power, but again we're talking about transistors and not about tubes.

I own a 100W Marshall Superbass from the 60's, this amp will "destroy" the KPA-Powerhead at any time....

180 transistor-watts could be too weak in some situations, of course it's important if you play Jazz or Death Metal. I play a lot af gigs mith my 15 (tube)watts Fender Blues Junior and this amp is LOUD.

Hi Guenther,


it is very interesting to know that you think 180W could be to weak in some situations ; playing a 15W amp yourself.


Your 100W Marshall Superbass is a very loud amp. True.
It will produce a bit higher sound pressure level than a 100W transistor amp because it does not control the speakers as much (damping factor) and let them do their thing.
It will produce a significantly higher distortion that may be still perceived as "clean", but it actually is not. Humans will perceive distorted sound as being louder , compared to sound with less distortion.


Fourth grade physics students will tell you that a watt is a watt. No matter where it comes from.


We have customers playing the bass guitar in stadium punk rock bands with a Camplifier 180.
Many customers playing death, grind, speed, ultra...whatever Metal with the Camplifier 180.


Some of them can be found here :
http://ritteramps.de/unsere-kunden/



The band, in which Kydas (above) plays in, call their music "swiss metalcore ".
He further states : "I think that I've never went over 50% of it's power (on a 2x12, Celestion V30 cab)"


With the Celestion being very efficient speakers in terms of dB/W/M (over 100 I think).


I also doubt very much that your Marshall will "destroy" a 600W power head.
A little hype, religion and a little bashing is cool, but a minimum of respect for the laws of nature should still be obtained - in my opinion.


Best,
Tilman

Quote from Tilman

A little hype, religion and a little bashing is cool, but a minimum of respect for the laws of nature should still be obtained - in my opinion.

You understood me totally wrong, there's no bashing, hype or "religion" from my side and for sure the Camplifier is a great product.
I just have a different opinion about watts = watts, talking about an Engl 100W Powerball and comparing its power 1:1 to a transistor amp like the Camplifier. That maybe right technically, but not in real life. Everybody knows that a 15 W-transistor amp never can be as loud as f.e. a 15 W Blues Junior. And I also don't think that the Powerhead (I have one) has too much power, because a transistor amp actually can't have too much power. A good transistor poweramp -hopefully- won't color or influence the signal and will just amplify it.

Tube amps can be used far above their rated power, you can crank them up and then you'll get that nice tube-saturation. If you have a 180W-transistor-amp that will be the maximum power. Tube-amps often will get more distortion if you'll play them on high levels, just take a look at a simple amp like a Fender Deluxe from the 50's. Like you said by yourself a tube-amp won't allow much damping, so there's actually more power going into the speakers.

As you can see there are much more factors than simple watt-statistics from fourth grade physics students. Technically you're right, watts = watts, but every experienced guitar-player will tell you, that you'll need much more transistor watts to get the same volume at the end. My Marshall 100W Superbass is the loudest 100W-top I've ever heard, you can't use it without a power-brake.

I have no doubts at all that the Camplifier 180W-mono will be loud enough for the most occasions, especially today using excellent monitor-systems. I did my last tours totally without a poweramp, just my KPA direct to desk using UE 11 Pro in-ears.

Quote from guenterhaas

He also thinks that the 600W of the KPA-Powerhead offers too much, unnecessary power, but again we're talking about transistors and not about tubes.

I want to clarify a point on my "review" about this : I did say that "180 was already too much" in a way that "being a non-professional musician, it satisfy all my needs by far and I don't "need" all the power of this amp". I never had to crank it all up but I'm not saying in any way that it's a bad thing to have the possibility to have more power. I really hope that one day I'll play on a place big enough to say "sh*t, 180W isn't enough" haha.
When I bought my Camplifier 180 I wasn't really sure that this would be enough and I'm now pretty sure that it's enough for most of guitarists who plays home or small gigs with a band and that's what I wanted to say. It was meant to eventually help someone who's wondering if 180W is enough, not meant to say that "more is useless" because it is not.
I hope you'll understand my point.
Cheers

Hey, don't get me wrong... I just didn't like the 1:1 comparison 100W-tube amp and transistor amp.

What's loud enough or not is very individual, my big tube-amps are actually too loud for the most occasions. My personal point of view for using the Camplifier:

+ you don't have to buy a Powerhead and you can keep the standard KPA
+ you can buy the stereo Camplifier, the Powerhead is only mono
+ standard KPA + Camplifier is even less expensive than the Powerhead

- you need 2 power-cords
- less power (if you need it...)

Anyway, I always would prefer the 360W-Camplifier, because it's not much more expensive and you'll have the stereo feature. I'm very sure that 360 watts will be loud enough. I'm owning a Matrix Q12a (260W) and for me it's loud enough for all occasions.

Quote from guenterhaas

Technically you're right, watts = watts, but every experienced guitar-player will tell you, that you'll need much more transistor watts to get the same volume at the end.

I guess what Tillman is saying is that this is not true if you consider the distortion %.
IOW, loudspeaker's efficiency being the same, 1 undistorted watt = 1 undistorted watt.

Quote from viabcroce

I guess what Tillman is saying is that this is not true if you consider the distortion %.
IOW, loudspeaker's efficiency being the same, 1 undistorted watt = 1 undistorted watt.

This! Besides that, this is splitting hairs.
There are reasons perfectly explained by Tilman why tube amps will perceived as louder when driven: because they go into soft clipping distortion.
IMO everybody's right here, nobody's wrong. Ain't that great?

Quote from Ingolf

IMO everybody's right here, nobody's wrong. Ain't that great?

+1

Sometimes discussions can get along very well.

Quote from Ingolf

IMO everybody's right here, nobody's wrong. Ain't that great?

Hahaha, good one. But not everyone is going to gain as much

Why not?
Sometimes the gain comes from understanding the 'opponent's' (although basically the aren't) better and to detect flaws in your own argumentation.
I have learned something, again

mine is with splitted powercord so only one
i got the mono version, my cab only can do 4 ohm mono or 16 ohm mono. so i use 16 ohm and its still loud enough for metal and i dont need the full power. So its close like running only a 90 watt camplifier with 16 ohm instead of 8 ohm and still powerful

Quote from Ingolf

Why not?
Sometimes the gain comes from understanding the 'opponent's' (although basically the aren't) better and to detect flaws in your own argumentation.
I have learned something, again

Sure

I mean that Tillman was trying to push SS amps by saying a watt is a watt (which is true), and Guenter basically answered "I prefer some distortion but flapping my pants on stage" (which is understandable). Guenter won't probably ever buy a SS amp, Tillman will not design a SS amp as loud as a tube amp.

Just another way to look at things

Quote from viabcroce

Sure

I mean that Tillman was trying to push SS amps by saying a watt is a watt (which is true), and Guenter basically answered "I prefer some distortion but flapping my pants on stage" (which is understandable). Guenter won't probably ever buy a SS amp, Tillman will not design a SS amp as loud as a tube amp.

Just another way to look at things

It's not just about loudness, but to compare the power of a 100W-tube-amp 1:1 to a transistor-amp doesn't make sense for me, the reasons are widely explained.

I don't play loud on stage, on bigger tours there's no amp at all (KPA sym. out --> desk / in-ears). I have absolutely nothing against the Camplifier, it's a great solution especially if you already own a non-powered KPA or you want to play stereo. Of course there are some other solutions, too, like one or two active FRFR-cabs or the KPA-Powerhead.

On the other side: even I bought the Powerhead and a Matrix Q12a-FRFR-cab (I also could test CLR and Camper 112CX), I hardly use it. I still prefer a tube-amp if I'm standing next to the amp/the amp is on stage. Mabye it's the tube saturation I'm missing or the feel/interaction, but I like to play small amps (Blues Junior 15W, Dr. Z Maz Sen. 38W, THD Univalve 15W) and crank them up. If I use the KPA for recording or live direct-to-desk I love it.